The Official Matrix Reloaded Thread...
05-17-2003, 05:08 PM
#172
Irisher than Thou
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Hey, sorry I'm a little late here, but I thought I'd throw in my .02 on all this.
!!!Possible spoilers and lots of philosophical stuff ahead!!!
On Neo and Smith: At the end of Matrix I, Neo disseminates Smith's code. We find out later that although Smith is now disconnected from the main flow of the matrix, he is "alive." This makes him a rogue program (who, the Oracle tells us, only seek more power). Smith is a virus, he propagates through the matrix. This is interesting, because he has now become what he perceived humans to be in the first episode.
Neo receives Smith's earpiece. This is a symbolic action, as Smith later tells Neo that when eh was disseminated he felt Neo become part of him, and suspects that Neo felt Smith become part of him. I believe the parts they exchange are (from Neo to Smith) the code of rebellion (from the Architect) and (from Smith to Neo) the ability to communicate with the Matrix. Thus the reason for the earpiece.
On Neo and the Architect: Neo is told several times he is different than his predecessors. I agree that the televisions in the background project alternate universes for Neo, not the answers of previous versions. At first the "Three?" comment threw me, but I believe this refers to the fct that Neo could have been born earlier in the timeline of the Matrix.
That said, Neo is also told that he is different because his love is not altruistic, but rather focused on one person. The choice he is made to hold her above all else will ultimately result in him choosing the left door. However, while the architect describes this choice as ending in cataclismic system failure, I believe he is lying.
The Agents: Someone suggested earlier that the people who seem "bad" (agents, etc.) and those that seem good (oracle, council) are actually the reverse. I think that's somewhat in the right direction but not completely. Agents are programmed only to recognize the anomaly of a hacked signal or rogue program and destroy it. In actuality, these programs are simply put there to make the Zionists think they are actually struggling against something. This is best illustrated in the first movie where Neo defeats agents, and this lends creedence to the theory that he is the one. If he is not recognized as "the one" he will not complete his quest. The one, and his/her quest for the source are simply the final control for the 1% of the pop. that cannot accept the programming. However, Neo is different from the rest, not necessarily because of himself, but because of Trinity. Trinity may actually be the key to mankind's salvation, because she is the "new" anomaly in the equation.
The Squidies' Defeat: The last thing I'll comment on is the ending of II where Neo defeats the squids. As I said above, I think that Smith's transmitter code is inside Neo. When he enters the rooms near the architect's chamber he is actually viewing the "hard drives" of Matrix code. Having viewed all of this, he may have been able to take on the different programs having to do with anything (sunrise, physical motion, the pigeons). If he was able to see the squidies' code, he would be able to use Smith's connection to the Matrix to transmit a self destruct code to them.
All in all, I thought the movie was great. The action sequences were awesome, and I think they outranked any other action movie I've ever seen. The whole sequence with the Cadillac > Ducati > Semi trucks was making me duck and swerve in my seat. :thumbup:
^^^^ Longest post in history?
!!!Possible spoilers and lots of philosophical stuff ahead!!!
On Neo and Smith: At the end of Matrix I, Neo disseminates Smith's code. We find out later that although Smith is now disconnected from the main flow of the matrix, he is "alive." This makes him a rogue program (who, the Oracle tells us, only seek more power). Smith is a virus, he propagates through the matrix. This is interesting, because he has now become what he perceived humans to be in the first episode.
Neo receives Smith's earpiece. This is a symbolic action, as Smith later tells Neo that when eh was disseminated he felt Neo become part of him, and suspects that Neo felt Smith become part of him. I believe the parts they exchange are (from Neo to Smith) the code of rebellion (from the Architect) and (from Smith to Neo) the ability to communicate with the Matrix. Thus the reason for the earpiece.
On Neo and the Architect: Neo is told several times he is different than his predecessors. I agree that the televisions in the background project alternate universes for Neo, not the answers of previous versions. At first the "Three?" comment threw me, but I believe this refers to the fct that Neo could have been born earlier in the timeline of the Matrix.
That said, Neo is also told that he is different because his love is not altruistic, but rather focused on one person. The choice he is made to hold her above all else will ultimately result in him choosing the left door. However, while the architect describes this choice as ending in cataclismic system failure, I believe he is lying.
The Agents: Someone suggested earlier that the people who seem "bad" (agents, etc.) and those that seem good (oracle, council) are actually the reverse. I think that's somewhat in the right direction but not completely. Agents are programmed only to recognize the anomaly of a hacked signal or rogue program and destroy it. In actuality, these programs are simply put there to make the Zionists think they are actually struggling against something. This is best illustrated in the first movie where Neo defeats agents, and this lends creedence to the theory that he is the one. If he is not recognized as "the one" he will not complete his quest. The one, and his/her quest for the source are simply the final control for the 1% of the pop. that cannot accept the programming. However, Neo is different from the rest, not necessarily because of himself, but because of Trinity. Trinity may actually be the key to mankind's salvation, because she is the "new" anomaly in the equation.
The Squidies' Defeat: The last thing I'll comment on is the ending of II where Neo defeats the squids. As I said above, I think that Smith's transmitter code is inside Neo. When he enters the rooms near the architect's chamber he is actually viewing the "hard drives" of Matrix code. Having viewed all of this, he may have been able to take on the different programs having to do with anything (sunrise, physical motion, the pigeons). If he was able to see the squidies' code, he would be able to use Smith's connection to the Matrix to transmit a self destruct code to them.
All in all, I thought the movie was great. The action sequences were awesome, and I think they outranked any other action movie I've ever seen. The whole sequence with the Cadillac > Ducati > Semi trucks was making me duck and swerve in my seat. :thumbup:
^^^^ Longest post in history?
05-17-2003, 05:18 PM
#173
BOOM goes the dynamite!
the only issue i have with all that, mountain gs-r, is about the squidies defeat. how would neo having that code (if that's what happened) make him able to defeat the squids in the real world, since you talk about him being able to communicate to the matrix. the squids are outside of the matrix.
05-17-2003, 05:40 PM
#174
Irisher than Thou
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Originally posted by kaizix
the only issue i have with all that, mountain gs-r, is about the squidies defeat. how would neo having that code (if that's what happened) make him able to defeat the squids in the real world, since you talk about him being able to communicate to the matrix. the squids are outside of the matrix.
the only issue i have with all that, mountain gs-r, is about the squidies defeat. how would neo having that code (if that's what happened) make him able to defeat the squids in the real world, since you talk about him being able to communicate to the matrix. the squids are outside of the matrix.
05-17-2003, 05:48 PM
#175
BOOM goes the dynamite!
Originally posted by MountainGSR
Yeah, I sorta confuse myself on exactly how the transmitter would work, however, the human mind in the matrix is basically just like a hard drive. After all, they can copy different things to the people's brains (helicopter flight program, jiu jitsu, motorcycle hotwiring). They have the same brain in both the matrix and the real world, so it seems to me that they would have the same knowledge in the real world.
Yeah, I sorta confuse myself on exactly how the transmitter would work, however, the human mind in the matrix is basically just like a hard drive. After all, they can copy different things to the people's brains (helicopter flight program, jiu jitsu, motorcycle hotwiring). They have the same brain in both the matrix and the real world, so it seems to me that they would have the same knowledge in the real world.
i'm on my way to see it again, hopefully i can pay more attention and figure some of the junk out.
05-17-2003, 05:52 PM
#176
Long Lost Lurker
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hmmm... Perhaps, as they say in the first matrix " If you mind thinks it's real in the matrix, it will believe that it is real outside the matrix"... he learned to trancend the boundries of the matrix. He believed that he could stop the squids, and by believing he could stop them, he was able to.
05-17-2003, 05:57 PM
#177
BOOM goes the dynamite!
Originally posted by White[Pony]
owneragingnessisticalismocitytaculartical.ness.
owneragingnessisticalismocitytaculartical.ness.
h:
05-17-2003, 07:11 PM
#180
i
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i was talking about people not machines, as in people that were freed, machine programs don't count, i was thinking about why their weren't any asian HUMANS, niobi's right hand man looks more italian than asian (and yes i have teh game too)