I am human and thats all that f*cking matters. You know what breeds war, hate and hate crimes? People like you who go about ranting and raving about how one thing is better than the other, guess what its great to have opinions but if you agree to diagree then you don't have problems.

Little history for you... we all came from a woman who lived 200,000 years ago in Africa. So that makes us all equals, but hey we gotta start having sects and groups and people claiming to be better than others.

So while the rest of you go about killing each other in the name of some ill gotten "group" you belong to, I will just sit back and smoke my cigar because I know I am human and not some [enter random names] person.

 

Currently, while America is focused upon the war in Iraq, the House and Senate negotiators are putting the finishing touches on a budget that will set priorities for the federal govt.

While the Senate, narrowly ruled by Republicans, voted to restrict Bush's proposed 726 Billion dollar tax cut to 350 Billion dollars, the House voted allong party lines to pass a budget that includes the entire 726 Billion dollar tax cut. The House's budget not only includes more than double the tax cut, it also includes entitlement programs to be cut an estimated $265 Billion over the next 10 years.

The largest entitlement cut is to Medicaid, a program that provides health care for low-income families and nursing home care for many elderly. Medicaid is the shared responsibility of both state and federal govts. For 2 years, the states have been asking for increased Medicaid funding in order to offset: rising perscription drug costs, the slow economy making private health insurance less affordable for more and more families, employers increasing reluctance in providing health insurance for its employees, and the increasingly aged population of America.

However, the "House of Republicans" has voted to cut medicaid funding by $92 Billion. Additionally, Veteran's benifits are slated to take a $14 Billion hit, similar to the cut marked for the Earned Income Tax Credit. Food stamps is slated to be cut by $13 Billion, School lunch and other child nutrition programs are to loose $6 Billion in federal funding, and other multibillion dollar funding cuts are are marked for programs such as Foster Care, Adoption assistance, and Child Support Enforcement.

How does this effect the states and many Americans. The states are currently facing an average of $29 Billion Dollar budget deficit, and face an average of $82 Billion dollar deficit in the next fiscal year. This is likely to hit most middle class Americans in the form of state income tax and property tax increases.But, the working poor bare the brunt. Because of the entitlement cuts, nearly 500,000 elderly in Massachusetts are no longer eligable for eye-glasses of false teeth, 100,000 working poor in Oregon lost dental and medical services, and in Illinois, the medicaid program now requires patients on Zoloft (an antidepressant) to buy stronger dose pills and cut them in half.

Not to mention the future regarding reduced adoptions and fostercare of unwanted children, and the reduced ability to track down deadbeat dads and force them to pay child support, which we are likely to see if this budget it enacted. Or, the thousands that may die as a result of lack of medical care, or malnutrition in children, or the lower amount of learning that takes place in children that are not fed properly..............

What is driving these cuts in aid to so many Americans? It is the need to make room for Bush's 726 Billion dolar tax cut. The overall trade-off involves Bush's proposed elimination of taxes on stock dividends, an additional benifit that is estimated to bring the total tax cut for Multimillionaire stock investors to $90, 000 dollars a year, and add $2 Trillion Dollars to the national debt over the next 10 years.

Now, I have heard that Jesus advocated for equal treatment for all, rich and poor alike. That the tax system is unfair to the wealthy, who should not pay a greater percentage in taxes than enyone else. That cutting taxes for the extremely wealthy is therefore a Christian value. I claim that this is more of a capitalist conservative value then a Christian value, and the two are incompatable, polar opposites. What kind of value would advocate for the advancement of the few very wealthy at such great expense to the many poor. But, I guess what we really need to do is ask ourselves, what would Jesus do? Did his heart bleed? Did he help the poor? or was he a callous conservative?

 

Odysseus

You have still failed to answer my questions. And you claim that I only want to see things that support my established belief system. You also claim that this war is only breeding more extremists that will attack America. In case you have forgoten they already have attacked America...and this was when they were unprovoked. Our government is not making it more dangerous for my family...the inaction of our previous administration already took care of making it dangerous enough and I have already lost one friend because of it. This government is getting rid of the places that allow terrorists to train, grow, build weapons...the countries that can provide the infrastructure needed to do so.

American lives have already been lost...we know terrorists would love to kill more. Do you really think the US should sit idle and let it happen...like other administrations have? Are you really willing to take the risk of inaction and have more innocent American lives killed? Then would we be justified to go kill the 100,000 Iraqi's whose weapons were used against us? You still have not answered this! And then you would have 100,000 dead Americans and then 100,000 dead Iraqis...to use your numbers.

As for liberals being open-minded did you happen to see hte protester this weekend showing his support for our troops? I did. He had a nice big sign that read, "We support our troops when they shoot their officers!" Now that was one very open minded liberal? And if you think conservatives are sheep look at yourself first. All liberals do is follow what the liberallly biased media and actors say. All they do is quote the New York or LA Times or resay what Sean Penn or Susan Sarandon spouted off at the latest rally. Who's sheep now? At least Conservatives can see the big picture and realize that we have to do something about it...after all 8 years of being pacifists did nothing for the US but cause 3000 dead Americans.

And the same goes for you...what do you think a women's choice is when you are supporting her right to choose? You are advocating the killing of an unborn baby. You too only follow ideals that are self serving to your own needs.

 

"You also claim that this war is only breeding more extremists that will attack America. In case you have forgoten they already have attacked America...and this was when they were unprovoked."

No I have not forgotten. But it was not Iraq who did. If you can't find ossama bomb Iraq? Bin Laden needs to be found and brought to justice. Yes I believe that what we are doing now is breeding more extremests, making ANOTHER attack more, rather than less likely. We can not change what has already happened. Retribution may make us feel better or even safer, but will likely only work as well as it does in Isreal. We can only find how WE messed up in not being able to stop it. We can not possibly kill everyone who hates us. We can, however, only try to influence them to stop hating us and wanting to kill us. I don't think this war is doing a good job of that.



"Our government is not making it more dangerous for my family...the inaction of our previous administration already took care of making it dangerous enough and I have already lost one friend because of it. This government is getting rid of the places that allow terrorists to train, grow, build weapons...the countries that can provide the infrastructure needed to do so."

If Syria, Libia, Iran, Saudi... believed as you do, this will turn into a world war. All of them contain extremests that hate us. You are talking about killing millions of people in dozens of countries. There must be another way. Turn on the TV, put on the BBC, there is less pro war coverage than American TV. There are hundreds of thousands of Arabs in the streets of a dozen nations protesting against what we are doing in Iraq. This is dangerous for America. We are causing this outrage. We are increasing the likelyhood of ANOTHER attack.



"American lives have already been lost...we know terrorists would love to kill more. Do you really think the US should sit idle and let it happen...like other administrations have? Are you really willing to take the risk of inaction and have more innocent American lives killed? Then would we be justified to go kill the 100,000 Iraqi's whose weapons were used against us? You still have not answered this! And then you would have 100,000 dead Americans and then 100,000 dead Iraqis...to use your numbers."

Inaction would be as ignorant as thinking that taking over Iraq is going to solve this problem. I'm not suggesting inaction.
Again, KILLING PEOPLE IS ALWAYS WRONG! You are pissed and want retribution because you lost a friend. With this war, thousands of more people will feel the same way, resulting in more attacks on us. Also, you are blaming 911 on Clinton. He is no more or less responsable than Bush. And intelligence has been lacking since carter, regan, or bush 41. The entire system has failed us. This is key- We can not control the behavior of others only ourselves. We can change minds. We need to use diplomacy and non-violence to convince the Arab people not to hate and attack us. We are currently doing the opposite. We may win the military war, but we have already lost the war for world opinion. What we think about this as Americans does not matter as much as how the rest of the world sees us. It is them who poses the threat.

"As for liberals being open-minded did you happen to see hte protester this weekend showing his support for our troops? I did. He had a nice big sign that read, "We support our troops when they shoot their officers!" Now that was one very open minded liberal? And if you think conservatives are sheep look at yourself first. All liberals do is follow what the liberallly biased media and actors say. All they do is quote the New York or LA Times or resay what Sean Penn or Susan Sarandon spouted off at the latest rally. Who's sheep now? At least Conservatives can see the big picture and realize that we have to do something about it...after all 8 years of being pacifists did nothing for the US but cause 3000 dead Americans."

That protester was not liberal or conservative, he was ignorant. That makes me as angry as it does you. The media is not liberal and the war coverage proves this. It is all pro war. And it is all owned by those with an adgenda. Fox news is the biggest joke of them all. You want a less biased look at the war, turn to the BBC. I could care less what sean penn has to say. However, I do side with those who believe that killing people is always wrong.



"And the same goes for you...what do you think a women's choice is when you are supporting her right to choose? You are advocating the killing of an unborn baby. You too only follow ideals that are self serving to your own needs"

You still don't get it. The false consensus effect has you by the balls. I do not believe that a fetus is an unborn child. Stop projecting your belief upon me. Killing people is always wrong. War is wrong, capital punishment is wrong. Removing a fetus is like removing a seed from the ground before it sprouts. it is not a plant, but a seed. I am not a woman, I have no self interest in abortion, but only the freedom to choose. Stop doing the Republican twist. It will always fail


Tell me Why is abortion wrong and war or capital punishment is right. In your eyes, all three are taking life. In my eyes, only war and capital punishment take life. And, still, you only follow the church when it suits you too. Like many conservative christians, they only profess the christian faith because they think it will save their souls. It is all about them. Very selfish and unchristlike. Hypocrisy

 

You brought up religion and how Christianity and Conservativism should not be related. The Catholic Church defines and unborn baby, a fetus, as a living thing. But you say that Christianity and Conservativism should not be related...but they both agree on this subject matter. According to the Catholic Church abortion is wrong because it kills an unborn child...the exact stance conservative republicans have taken. That is not republican twist.

Do you follow the Christian faith? If so then by advocating a women's right to choose is the same thing I am doing with advocating a war to rid the world of those that would do harm. I will admit I am not siding with my Church on this one...I wish you could do the same.

 

Also the only reason why I think war and cpital punishment are justified and abortion is not is that with an abortion you are killing a living thing without giving them a chance at life. With war or capital punishment you are killing someone who has done some harm to others and has already made their choice.

That said I am not for capital punishment right now because of all the flaws in our legal system.

 

Odysseus, I don't think anyone is up for killing human beings. I don't like war, no one likes war. But, if we didn't act in Iraq, if we didn't act in Afghanistan, and if we didn't act in the Phillipines, where would we be after 9/11? Seriously. Think about it before you reply. If we hadn't taken out the Talibabies, weakened AlQeda severely, and destroy a dictator and his regime which was firmly set on using WMD on innocent people (and has already murdered thousands of his own people), where would the world be now? If we didn't set out to destroy these Stallin-esque, Hitler-esque evil minded animals who do not listen to reason or abide by any international laws, what do we do? You tell me. What do we do? Just let them all wipe out man kind? Don't tell me there were no wars between good and evil in Biblical times, either. God himself initiated a flood of mythic proportions to eradicate the evil of the time and saved the only person who had faith in him (Noah), so you can stick your preaching up your nose. We are at a crossroad in history: the classic case of good versus evil, and good must prevail. There are no other avenues to achieve a safe world for humanity to continue.

To quote Toby Keith: "If you don't love it, leave it" Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue

 

Odysseus:

What translation are you getting "Thou shalt not kill" from?

If you read in a STUDY bible, one that goes IN DEPTH and doesn't just SCRATCH THE SURFACE of the issue, that very same "Thou shalt not kill" is more directly translated as "Thou shalt not MURDER." Murder, by definition, is the intentional taking of innocent lives. Therefore, abortion is murder.

Going by this same argument, as found in many versions of study bibles, particularly the NASB, NIV, Living Word, KJV, and NKJV versions, you will find that this war is justified, and the pursuit of the threats against this nation is clearly outlined and supported in the bible. Since when does the bible indicate that it is proper of a nation to stand by and not kill the heathens who dare cross His people?

Yes, this war does have some murder involved IF you perceive civillians caught in the wrong place at the wrong time (see above definition of murder), but every war has it's price, and wars back in biblical times had civillian casualties.

 

What happened today proved not only was the United States justified in what we are doing, the Iraqi people wanted it, welcome it, and are thankful to no end that we liberated them from that tyrant. Today was a great date in history. I had a few tears in my eyes seeing Iraqi people wave their flag and ours in each hand. Tearing down the statue in downtown Baghdad, and the people hugging our troops. We all know work is far from over and there are still pockets of resistance, but for the first time the people truly feel liberated and thankful. They chant our President's name, wave our flag along with theirs, and broadcast pro-American messages in their mosques. I never thought I would see this as much or as fast as it happened. Now, more than ever, I'm proud to be an American.

 

EXACTLY.

Odysseus, you seem to try and come across as a well informed individual, yet your views/opinions on religion, particularly Christianity, is very shallow. and by shallow i mean you have no solid knowledge of it in which you try so hard to negate. you take everything you "hear" about from the Bible, and attempt to explain it in your words using only what you see on the surface. sure, to the uninformed, "thou shall not kill" makes perfectly sense in your explaination. however, like b_dyche said, that is not the proper explaination as used in the Bible. you have completely taken it out of context and used it to support your argument against Christianity. you seem to make some strong points on your political stand point, but if youre going to try and put down Christianity, or any religion for that matter, learn it before you make yourself look shallow and uninformed about the very own subject matter you go against.