For those of you against the war....
09-05-2003 | 12:23 PM
#291
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my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: San Antonio, Texas
hey, if we want to go pointing the finger at past administrations, how about blaming bush sr. and the army's over-rated need for 'syncronization' on losing the Iraqi royal guard during the first gulf war. I'm sure that could have proved vital.
No shock from Germany and France on their veiws of the UN proposal.
and still no osoma, no suddam, no wmd's.
and soon, another $60billion from congress.
No shock from Germany and France on their veiws of the UN proposal.
and still no osoma, no suddam, no wmd's.
and soon, another $60billion from congress.
09-14-2003 | 02:34 PM
#292
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: San Antonio, Texas
update on the war in iraq: US troops kill 10 Iraqi police. :goodjob:
guess thats means their gonna be even more pissed at us. Which will lead to more terrorism, which will put salt in our wounds.
am I the only one who can tell we're not going the right way?
guess thats means their gonna be even more pissed at us. Which will lead to more terrorism, which will put salt in our wounds.
am I the only one who can tell we're not going the right way?
09-14-2003 | 02:42 PM
#293
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
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From: San Antonio, Texas
I guess everyone just overlooked this without thought.....
Senator Levin: . . . If (Saddam) didn't feel threatened, did not feel
threatened, is it likely that he would initiate an attack using a weapon of
mass destruction?
Senior Intelligence Witness: . . . My judgment would be that the probability
of him initiating an attack — let me put a time frame on it — in the
foreseeable future, given the conditions we understand now, the likelihood I
think would be low.
Senator Levin: Now if he did initiate an attack you've . . . indicated he
would probably attempt clandestine attacks against us . . . But what about
his use of weapons of mass destruction? If we initiate an attack and he
thought he was in extremis or otherwise, what's the likelihood in response
to our attack that he would use chemical or biological weapons?
Senior Intelligence Witness: Pretty high, in my view.
In the above dialogue, the witness's qualifications — "in the foreseeable
future, given the conditions we understand now" — were intended to
underscore that the likelihood of Saddam using W.M.D. for blackmail,
deterrence, or otherwise grows as his arsenal builds. Moreover, if Saddam
used W.M.D., it would disprove his repeated denials that he has such
weapons.
threatened, is it likely that he would initiate an attack using a weapon of
mass destruction?
Senior Intelligence Witness: . . . My judgment would be that the probability
of him initiating an attack — let me put a time frame on it — in the
foreseeable future, given the conditions we understand now, the likelihood I
think would be low.
Senator Levin: Now if he did initiate an attack you've . . . indicated he
would probably attempt clandestine attacks against us . . . But what about
his use of weapons of mass destruction? If we initiate an attack and he
thought he was in extremis or otherwise, what's the likelihood in response
to our attack that he would use chemical or biological weapons?
Senior Intelligence Witness: Pretty high, in my view.
In the above dialogue, the witness's qualifications — "in the foreseeable
future, given the conditions we understand now" — were intended to
underscore that the likelihood of Saddam using W.M.D. for blackmail,
deterrence, or otherwise grows as his arsenal builds. Moreover, if Saddam
used W.M.D., it would disprove his repeated denials that he has such
weapons.
09-14-2003 | 04:35 PM
#294
Sinner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,599
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From: NoVA
Originally posted by 18secFerio
update on the war in iraq: US troops kill 10 Iraqi police. :goodjob:
guess thats means their gonna be even more pissed at us. Which will lead to more terrorism, which will put salt in our wounds.
am I the only one who can tell we're not going the right way?
update on the war in iraq: US troops kill 10 Iraqi police. :goodjob:
guess thats means their gonna be even more pissed at us. Which will lead to more terrorism, which will put salt in our wounds.
am I the only one who can tell we're not going the right way?
According to Iraqi police, it began early Friday in the town 43 miles (69 kilometers) west of Baghdad. Iraqi police chased attackers who fired on their station and were in turn shot at by U.S. troops. Jordanian soldiers guarding a nearby hospital thought they were under attack and were drawn into the three-hour gunbattle, according to the Jordanian Information Ministry.
Coalition spokesman Col. George Krivo said the U.S. participation in the incident began with a U.S. military patrol coming under "attack from a truck by unknown forces.
"Coalition forces immediately returned fire," he said. "Regrettably, during the incident, extensive damage was done to the hospital, and several security personnel were killed, including eight Iraqis and a Jordanian national.
"Senior military leadership of the coalition has been in contact with the Jordanian military and Iraqi authorities to express our deep regret and apologies," he said.
Krivo said Brig. Gen. Jeffrey
Coalition spokesman Col. George Krivo said the U.S. participation in the incident began with a U.S. military patrol coming under "attack from a truck by unknown forces.
"Coalition forces immediately returned fire," he said. "Regrettably, during the incident, extensive damage was done to the hospital, and several security personnel were killed, including eight Iraqis and a Jordanian national.
"Senior military leadership of the coalition has been in contact with the Jordanian military and Iraqi authorities to express our deep regret and apologies," he said.
Krivo said Brig. Gen. Jeffrey
09-14-2003 | 05:03 PM
#295
I need sleep...
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
From: NH
Originally posted by /^Blackmagik^\
i guess you forgot about his part... they were fired on first.. when you are taking fire you return fire.. that's the way things work.. what else you got wonderboy
i guess you forgot about his part... they were fired on first.. when you are taking fire you return fire.. that's the way things work.. what else you got wonderboy
This is really starting to get funny.
09-15-2003 | 03:56 PM
#296
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,058
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From: Tampa, FL
Originally posted by /^Blackmagik^\
i guess you forgot about his part... they were fired on first.. when you are taking fire you return fire.. that's the way things work.. what else you got wonderboy
i guess you forgot about his part... they were fired on first.. when you are taking fire you return fire.. that's the way things work.. what else you got wonderboy
09-15-2003 | 05:19 PM
#297
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: San Antonio, Texas
you must have read the article from a pro-bush paper.....
FALLUJAH, Iraq - Eight Fallujah policemen and a Jordanian security guard were killed and nine other people were wounded early Friday, an Iraqi doctor said. Injured Iraqi police said an American patrol opened fire on the police — in an apparent friendly fire incident — as they chased a highway bandit.
An American military statement Friday said one U.S. soldier and five "neutral individuals" were wounded in an attack near the Jordanian Hospital in Fallujah, 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad. The military said U.S. soldiers were fired on with a rocket-propelled grenade and small arms. It gave no other details and it was not even certain the U.S. statement was issued about the same event. The military would not say when the incident it described had occurred.
In the apparent friendly fire incident in Fallujah 25 policemen in three vehicles, two pickup trucks and a sedan, were chasing a white BMW known to have been used by highway bandits. As the chase neared the Jordanian Hospital about 1:30 a.m. on the west side of Fallujah, 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad, the police turned around after losing sight of their quarry. The American patrol at the location opened fire, said Asem Mohammed, 23, a police sergeant who was among the injured.
"We were chasing a white BMW with bandits. We turned around in front of Jordanian Hospital and some American forces started shooting at us," he said.
Members of the Jordanian armed forces guarding the hospital apparently also opened fire when the Americans began shooting, catching the Iraqi police — part of the Fallujah Protection Force — in a vicious crossfire. After the incident, heavily armed Jordanian security guards were seen examining a bullet-ridden building just inside the walled hospital compound.
The 100-bed Jordanian military field hospital was sent in April 2003 to provide Iraqis and others with medical care. It also houses diplomats that were transferred there after the Jordanian embassy in Baghdad was attacked with a car bomb last month.
"We were in-between firing from all sides," Mohammed said. "We were in the middle."
Dr. Dial Jumaili, who went to the scene to treat the victims, said there were eight dead policemen. He said two others were in serious condition and taken to a nearby U.S. base. Hospital. Two other Irasi Iraqi policemen, four Jordanian guards and an Iraqi civilian also were injured.
In the Fallujah Hospital, where most of the injured were taken after the mistaken, 19-year-old policeman Arkan Adnan Ahmed said the shooting lasted about 45 minutes. He was shot in the shoulder.
He said the sudden appearance of one of the police vehicles, an unmarked pickup truck with a machine gun mounted on top, may have prompted the Americans to begin firing. "We shouted 'we are police. We are police.' Then we drove off the road into a field."
An American military statement Friday said one U.S. soldier and five "neutral individuals" were wounded in an attack near the Jordanian Hospital in Fallujah, 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad. The military said U.S. soldiers were fired on with a rocket-propelled grenade and small arms. It gave no other details and it was not even certain the U.S. statement was issued about the same event. The military would not say when the incident it described had occurred.
In the apparent friendly fire incident in Fallujah 25 policemen in three vehicles, two pickup trucks and a sedan, were chasing a white BMW known to have been used by highway bandits. As the chase neared the Jordanian Hospital about 1:30 a.m. on the west side of Fallujah, 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad, the police turned around after losing sight of their quarry. The American patrol at the location opened fire, said Asem Mohammed, 23, a police sergeant who was among the injured.
"We were chasing a white BMW with bandits. We turned around in front of Jordanian Hospital and some American forces started shooting at us," he said.
Members of the Jordanian armed forces guarding the hospital apparently also opened fire when the Americans began shooting, catching the Iraqi police — part of the Fallujah Protection Force — in a vicious crossfire. After the incident, heavily armed Jordanian security guards were seen examining a bullet-ridden building just inside the walled hospital compound.
The 100-bed Jordanian military field hospital was sent in April 2003 to provide Iraqis and others with medical care. It also houses diplomats that were transferred there after the Jordanian embassy in Baghdad was attacked with a car bomb last month.
"We were in-between firing from all sides," Mohammed said. "We were in the middle."
Dr. Dial Jumaili, who went to the scene to treat the victims, said there were eight dead policemen. He said two others were in serious condition and taken to a nearby U.S. base. Hospital. Two other Irasi Iraqi policemen, four Jordanian guards and an Iraqi civilian also were injured.
In the Fallujah Hospital, where most of the injured were taken after the mistaken, 19-year-old policeman Arkan Adnan Ahmed said the shooting lasted about 45 minutes. He was shot in the shoulder.
He said the sudden appearance of one of the police vehicles, an unmarked pickup truck with a machine gun mounted on top, may have prompted the Americans to begin firing. "We shouted 'we are police. We are police.' Then we drove off the road into a field."
09-16-2003 | 09:38 AM
#298
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 67
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considering the attacks on clintons watch were not within our borders
They were foreign terrorists, some of with I believe were illegal aliens. Wasn't the mastermind of that attack was released on pardon from William J. Clinton?
09-16-2003 | 11:43 AM
#299
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
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From: San Antonio, Texas
hey dumbass. that happend less than 3 months into clintons term.
I'm not saying clinton was a great man, but you can't pin the blame on him for that 'attack' that failed pretty bad, I might add.
while you're at it, learn to type sentences we can all understand.
I'm not saying clinton was a great man, but you can't pin the blame on him for that 'attack' that failed pretty bad, I might add.
while you're at it, learn to type sentences we can all understand.
09-16-2003 | 11:49 AM
#300
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
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From: San Antonio, Texas
btw, any of you right wingers get bored, do me a favor and tear this appart.... I need to work on my arguments.
Originally posted by 18secFerio
you can't have these threads without some bickering. The only solution to that is not posting
But the artical was rather sickening to me. I can't beleive how many idiots there are out there who think 2+2=5, but hey....
regardless, I think there's a fundamental flaw within american society. The problem is no one in power wants to be truthful and honest. Probably because that means they give up some of their power. Good ol' honest human corruption. Enron/worldcom, anyone?
I think the biggest issue is the central government. They're juggling too many pins at once, and keep dropping them. If they're not fumbling on the defense budget, its the economy/employment. And if its not that, its education. And now we have a war on terror, which is a quagmire in its own, let alone the war in iraq/afganistan. Clearly, we are heading up shit creek without anything to row with.
one solution would be to weaken the central government of its control over the people, and instead turn that control over to the states. Let the central govern. work on external measures, such as the war on terror, etc. I mean, techniclly, they should only be dealing with whats in the constitution, anyways. Isn't that how the country was set up?
doing so would allow the freeing up of much manpower in the central government, allowing politicans to better understand what they're doing. Talking with my father (whom is a republican, and a savvy one at that) brings light to me that our leaders don't totally know what they're doing, and its understood. Take bush for example. I know he's not the brightest light bulb out there, but he's a rally point, ya know? I'll respect that much. I remember when he went into office, I was at least happy he had a cabnet of people whom were respectable. People like Powell, Rice, Rummy, etc.
unfortunatly, it seems his cabnet is screwing him. Or they're screwing us, anyways. Both patriot acts are so rediculous, its not even funny. You guys made a point about profiling the arabs/people from the middle east. Honestly, I see no problem in profiling non-citizens. If someone from pakistan is in american and wants to flight, seach him till the cows come home. Pull out the latex glove and forget the lub.
but the fact that airport security will ask a 70 year-old woman if they can search her to make sure she won't blow up/take over the plane is rediculous. Isn't reenfoced doors and armed pilots enough? I'm telling you, if another attack happens to us from airplanes going into buildings, it will be a cold day in hell.
gee, wonder why the airline industry is in a downturn....
but what it boils down to is our constitution rights as citizens.
Or maybe the fact that if I go to a spurs game, I get searched. And check this out. Its not because they're worried about bombs and terror. Sure, thats the reason they imply, but further talks with the head of PR for the spurs (yah, one of the big wigs. again, through my fathers connection) shows that they're not the least bit concerned about terror, so much as people sneaking in drinks/food.
dear god, its about profit!!!! but who's surprized....
I think this goes back to public education, and selective learning. Let me bring back my "why do they call this a 'democracy' when it isn't" argument. Clearly, they're telling us half-truths. Sure, we live in a slightly democratic society, but anyone with a brain knows we live in a republic. I mean, if talking heads on CNN and FNC and even politicians keep telling us that we live in a democracy (I don't think I've heard/read anyone saying we don't, which is a shock to me), then why is it a surprise that all this iraq/al queda confusion continues without correction?
I mean, its just the snowball effect building up and up until one day, something happens (like the tet offense, which changed everyones opinion on vietnam), and then everyone gets left dumbfounded and agasp.
I think there's alot more to our problems the sept 11th, '01 and terrorism and Iraq. Our society is getting out of control. We need changes within the system, but the liklyhood of that happening is slim to nil, short of the second coming of christ.
God, I wish there was an easier way to change things....
you can't have these threads without some bickering. The only solution to that is not posting
But the artical was rather sickening to me. I can't beleive how many idiots there are out there who think 2+2=5, but hey....
regardless, I think there's a fundamental flaw within american society. The problem is no one in power wants to be truthful and honest. Probably because that means they give up some of their power. Good ol' honest human corruption. Enron/worldcom, anyone?
I think the biggest issue is the central government. They're juggling too many pins at once, and keep dropping them. If they're not fumbling on the defense budget, its the economy/employment. And if its not that, its education. And now we have a war on terror, which is a quagmire in its own, let alone the war in iraq/afganistan. Clearly, we are heading up shit creek without anything to row with.
one solution would be to weaken the central government of its control over the people, and instead turn that control over to the states. Let the central govern. work on external measures, such as the war on terror, etc. I mean, techniclly, they should only be dealing with whats in the constitution, anyways. Isn't that how the country was set up?
doing so would allow the freeing up of much manpower in the central government, allowing politicans to better understand what they're doing. Talking with my father (whom is a republican, and a savvy one at that) brings light to me that our leaders don't totally know what they're doing, and its understood. Take bush for example. I know he's not the brightest light bulb out there, but he's a rally point, ya know? I'll respect that much. I remember when he went into office, I was at least happy he had a cabnet of people whom were respectable. People like Powell, Rice, Rummy, etc.
unfortunatly, it seems his cabnet is screwing him. Or they're screwing us, anyways. Both patriot acts are so rediculous, its not even funny. You guys made a point about profiling the arabs/people from the middle east. Honestly, I see no problem in profiling non-citizens. If someone from pakistan is in american and wants to flight, seach him till the cows come home. Pull out the latex glove and forget the lub.
but the fact that airport security will ask a 70 year-old woman if they can search her to make sure she won't blow up/take over the plane is rediculous. Isn't reenfoced doors and armed pilots enough? I'm telling you, if another attack happens to us from airplanes going into buildings, it will be a cold day in hell.
gee, wonder why the airline industry is in a downturn....
but what it boils down to is our constitution rights as citizens.
Or maybe the fact that if I go to a spurs game, I get searched. And check this out. Its not because they're worried about bombs and terror. Sure, thats the reason they imply, but further talks with the head of PR for the spurs (yah, one of the big wigs. again, through my fathers connection) shows that they're not the least bit concerned about terror, so much as people sneaking in drinks/food.
dear god, its about profit!!!! but who's surprized....
I think this goes back to public education, and selective learning. Let me bring back my "why do they call this a 'democracy' when it isn't" argument. Clearly, they're telling us half-truths. Sure, we live in a slightly democratic society, but anyone with a brain knows we live in a republic. I mean, if talking heads on CNN and FNC and even politicians keep telling us that we live in a democracy (I don't think I've heard/read anyone saying we don't, which is a shock to me), then why is it a surprise that all this iraq/al queda confusion continues without correction?
I mean, its just the snowball effect building up and up until one day, something happens (like the tet offense, which changed everyones opinion on vietnam), and then everyone gets left dumbfounded and agasp.
I think there's alot more to our problems the sept 11th, '01 and terrorism and Iraq. Our society is getting out of control. We need changes within the system, but the liklyhood of that happening is slim to nil, short of the second coming of christ.
God, I wish there was an easier way to change things....