There is one assumption that you failed to overlook and that is the one that has been played up by liberals and the liberal media. And that is the fact that they equate the fact WMD have not been found to that they do not exists. But then they cannot explain where they went. And I am only talking about the known WMD, the ones the UN saw, that Saddam admitted to having, that are now missing. It was largely because of these weapons that were unacounted for that we went to war with Iraq.

 

jesus, is this "gang bang the 'liberal'?"

I swear, put something in the title that say "for all you who oppose this and that" and the exact opposites will be posting.....

lets see.

clinton had the two embassy bombings, I guess the first world trade center even though it wasn't a major deal, oklahoma city, and the marine base. That = 5

bush has had the second world trade center, pentigon, bali bombing, iraqi embassy, the iraqi oil line, anthrax in the mail, a virginia sniper (almost two, but the second's drug related). That = 7, and I'm sure theres some shit I'm forgetting, so there's probably more than that.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Well when people say we should not be going after terrorists and we would be better off by taking that approach it is only logical to bring up what Clinton did and the results of such actions (or inactions depending upon which side of the coin you are on). I think Clinton showed what happens when you take a pacifist, reactionary stance towards terrorism.[/B][/QUOTE]

true, but under clintons watch, we didn't lose 3000 american civilians. I'm sure if we had, things would have been a tad bit different. Concur?

But then again, in going after terrorists, we are doing nothing but what Isreal has been trying to do against palistinians for over 30 years now. And what has their situation showed us? unless you are incabible of learning from the past, I think my analogy should be clear.

[/B][/QUOTE]
And how so? Your arguments from the left are getting pretty weak. [/B][/QUOTE]

well, when you say
lets say there's conventional warfare that happens. Where would that come from? Probably N. Korea. And they can blow the shit out of the west coast (well, they have missles capable of sending nuclear payload to the west coast. It all depends if you beleive they have WMD, which, ironiclly enough, the same people who think Iraq did have them thinks N.Korea doesn't have them. ha)

now then, uncoventional warfare has shown us that at most, they can knock out a couple thousand depending on how big of a building they hit. Clearly, airplanes won't be used anymore. That was a one time deal. If you honestly think they can do that again, you're dead wrong. passengers wouldn't allow it.

As of late, terrorist attacks haven't delt too much of a blow. At most, 20 or 30 people get killed, and lots more wounded.

Therefor, it would be more devistating to be attacked conventionally than unconventionally, thus making your statement the worst ever, like I said in the first place.

and besides, you're praying that nothing happens, but if it does, make it light. Thats bullshit. This country has fucked up so much, do you really think that God (not your bibles version) would let this country off with a slap on the wrist? We've raped this planet of its reasources, spoiled its soil and water, layed havoc on its natural features, and all for what? Convienience? Money? Power?

I love the freedoms this country provides to us, but even they come with a price that may not be worth it. And even then, what makes us free? That we can choose our dinner? That we can decide what we want to do with our lives? First of all, we are not free, we are just bitches for the government. Cash Cows. Without us, who's money would our government depend upon to squander $100 on bolts and $500 on toilets. And you defend this government, who until the 60's radical movents actually affected it, would assassinate leaders that wouldn cooperate with us?

Second, freedom isn't all that great a privledge, either. Sure, you can do whatever you want, but how many people really know what they want to do with themselves? Sure, some people actually do, but if I had a dollar for each friend of mine who had no clue what was next, I'd have alot of dollars. If I was not free to choose, on the other hand, then life would be simple, having to be forced into a job, like it or not. Sure, its not the best sounding situation, but you know whats gonna happen, right? And you defend this government, who until the 60's radical movents actually affected it, would assassinate leaders that wouldn cooperate with us?

but third, maybe its just the catch 22 of life. That no matter what, there's gonna be ups and downs, and nothings perfect, all that. Not only would that prove my theory above, it would also prove not even the all mighty US government is perfect, too. Like you conservatives so love to beleive. Guess what, they're fucking you, too. Not just me.

Of course, aides and liutenants are always replaceable when you have people heavly against an oppressive government. Maybe you don't think the US is oppressive, but then again, look where we are.

I will admit invading Afganistan was initially a good thing. I talked with my father about it, and although I'm very picky on the whole idea, I still understand the Bushies first moves in the war on terror.

Invading afganistan wasn't a total mistake, but forgetting about bin ladin in favor of Saddam, and invading iraq, was.

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Iraq's former first sons are dead

so they were a little sadistic and they did some crazy shit back in the day. Do you really think the death of his sons was a big break in the war on terror? Maybe they were, from propagandist point of veiw. But thats just propaganda.

the real irony: showing dead corpses on the news was alright as long as its the "bad guy" but if they're US troops getting a beating, thats down right disrespectful. ha.

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and countless numbers of former Baathist Party members have been arrested after 6 months.

but the guy that really matters is still loose. Funny...

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A provisional government has been formed leading to the creation of a democratic government in Iraq...one which is not oppresive.

wow, and that really matters to all of us.

not to sound cold, but if they didn't want an oppresive government, God forbid they overthrow the current one. I seem to remember taking history class and learning thats what this country had to do, and its what france had to do. And many other nations, as well, including India.

We didn't need to be making the free. They should have free'd themselves.

also, the provisional government in Afganistan is a joke, so how good can Iraq's be?

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Thanks to America finally standing up and saying enough to terrorism and its sponsors the world is a lot safer place than it was 2 years ago!

say that in two more years after another attack has happend because the US wouldn't ease its iron fist.


well, if I were president, I would remove my troops from foreigne countrys and bring them home, I would reaffirme my beleif in the UN, and I would have this country become pasifistic once more.

We're the land of the free. That means we're the land of the mutt's. Everyones outcasts at some point in time or another have came here for refuge. And now were saying everyone else is wrong? Maybe since we're made up of every nationallity, we should respect each nationallity equilly, and respect every country equally, wether we like them or not. If you want change, you must be the change you want. If america wants peace, it should through peace.

"Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity."

true, but terrorist DO understand equallity, fairness, and demands.

IE, Isreal/palistine: The palistinians want prisoners removed from jails, the isreals keep refusing, or removing a fraction of the prisioners that have been there for "wrong reasons." Of course, maybe isreal had all reasons to jail them, but isreal has clearly shown they are as far from right as the palistinians.

Because isreal beleives they should stay in jail, palistinans get pissed and strap bombs to their chest. Then the "road map" falls apart.

If only isreal sucked up its pride, and actually did what it should have, then there would be one more bus in the west bank.

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Which is why it is up to us to get them first.

it is not up to us. We would like to beleive it so.

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I hate to keep reminding people that this isn't the good ole days when our enemies were empires, armies, and rulers. It's crazed lunatics without regard for anything or anyone.

your right, and your wrong.

we still have enemy empires. North Korea comes to mind.

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The way they see it, it is their mission to die.

for what the beleive in. Frankly, its the US marines mission to die for what the beleive in, freedom. Couldn't you say the same thing about the other side?

oh wait, we all forgot the other side is like that for a reason, that there's two sides to the coin. What am I thinking....

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Either die trying to kill thousands, dozens, or one. So the only way to eliminate terrorism is to eliminate the terrorists and their sources. That's the only way to stop them.

But if the terrorist were an evil enemy empire, such as north korea, this would be a very simple task. invade the nation, overthrow the government, set up something new.

But as iraq and afganistan have showed us, its much easier said than done.

oh yeah, vietnam showed us the same thing, too.

simple. Pull out of iraq.

blame bush, he got us into this mess. Its called putting gasoline on the fire.

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The UN is there to help the Iraqi's rebuild after the war,

but the UN didn't even want a war with Iraq in the first place. Or do you not remember that We didn't show them convincing enough evidence, which most of it was false. Irony.....

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the Jordanian's are a fellow Arab country they attacked, and blowing up oil and water pipelines does nothing but hurt ordinary Iraqis.

actually, it hurts the US more than the Iraqi's. We're more dependent on their oil than they are.

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They do not listen to reason...all they are is a group of uncivilized, crazed lunatics.

so what makes us so much better than them? We sure as hell don't listen to reason.

what makes us so much more civilized? Technology? Freedom?

turn on the tv for 10 minutes and flip through channels. Doing so will show you this country has done nothing but produced the same crap over and over. But we keep forgetting. MTV is warping the minds of millions of kids. Jerry springer is making white trash famous. Oprah keeps making money off her weigh-loss systems that don't even work for her. Is that not convincing enough that we have done nothing but regressed? It sure is for me.

why? What does it matter what I beleive? So you can say I'm wrong?

I'm no more wrong than any of you.

but come to think of it, you're more wrong than me. I recongnise the two-sidedness of the situation, and through that, I develope a more thoughtful opinion. You guys just act from instinct, which would tell us to retaliate when blows have been given.

but maybe the fact that I haven't been in a physical fight may have something to do with it, too.

what, was 9-11-01 not enough? I think people have waken as much as they can.

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It is not just the US they are after..... they are after anyone who believes in our rights as humans granted by a higher power to be who we are, and not what others say we must be. To believe in who or what we wish, to dress how we wish, to have the friends and family and make our life whatever we want.

oh, the ignorance.....

I'm not saying God didn't give us what we have. That would be stupid, because techniclly, he did. It was all nessisary.

the irony behind this is that Our country is built on the blood of the native americans, and of the slaves. And now its being build on the blood of "terrorsts" who threaten our lives.

Guess what people, they're fucking us. They're scaring us so we'll listen to them and only them. They're calling sheep when there's nothing to worry about. They come up with a color coded system that doesn't do shit. Its yellow, look out. Something might happen. But ultimatly, it doesn't.

Bin laden didn't call do attack us because of our culture, or beleifs. Buy a book called Holy War Inc. and turn to page 95. There you will read why Bin laden called a holy war on us. in his own words, kinda. Translations from Arab to English can lose the metaphorical meaning sometimes.

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The UN is the global representation of the union of nations with that commonality, and it is now time for the UN to show it's vallor (yes, even you, France and Germany). Let's see the UN take charge united and throw the bickering out the window.

What does that matter? We went over the UN's head. You really think they're gonna be a concern anymore? Not to bush.

ok, "dl" you want a solution?

actually, there's none I can give, honestly. After all, the reality of life is that everything is happening for a reason, and that everything leads up to a final moment. Given that that finally moment is certain, its not silly to say that everything that leads up to that final moment must be set in stone, even though it doesn't appear so.

so therefore this war on terror is supposed to happen. Everything is right on track as far as human history.

But just because something is happening doesn't make it right. If we hadn't slaughtered all those indians, we wouldn't have all this land. Sure, killing them all wasn't right, but as far as american is concerned, the ends always justify the means.

I concur

oh, come on. I can't beleive you. if something isn't there, how can you say it truly exists?

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But then they cannot explain where they went. And I am only talking about the known WMD, the ones the UN saw,

actually, the reason we were so set on it was because some of the technologies came from the US.

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that Saddam admitted to having, that are now missing.

when did saddam admit to having them? I clearly remember Iraq sending out statments that they did NOT have WMD, and that the US was fabricating lies. Turns out the later statement was true, given the turnout of bush's state of the union address. But no one seemed to care that he's info was bs, because he said he thought it was true, even though we all know they know it wasn't totally true.

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It was largely because of these weapons that were unacounted for that we went to war with Iraq.

and, wow, they're still unacounted for, after 6 months.

but vietnam took over 6 years, so we've got some time ahead of us.

One final thing:

It appears to me everyone who attacks me and my idea's is the same typical bible-thumping, gun-totting conservative. You're all the same. hicks. But thats just my irrational opinion.

the reality is that you're conservative because you don't like to form your own thoughts. Its the same reason you're a bible thumper.

Now, thats not to say I think the bible is wrong. There's alot of ideaology that's very true. The Koran also speaks the same basic principals. As do most major religions. Rights and wrongs, moral coding. The true pricipals of God.

But the truth is God didn't write the bible, and that alot of things in it arn't acurate. Why, because man wrote it, and man is anything but perfect.

so what does this have to do with you being conservative? Well, lets say God is bush, and the bible is the governments veiws on things. If you were any good at association, you'll catch my drift.

ok, bring on your next wave of ignorance. I will be looking forward to laughing alot.

 

Actually I have seen the two sides and the second one makes no sense whatsoever.

Because it is documented!!!!! Before the UN Weapons Inspectors were kicked out they documented many WMD that Iraq had...and Iraq admitted then to having them.

This was back in 1999 when the weapons inspectors were kicked out. Then in 2002 they said they were destroyed but offered no proof. And to this day none exists. That is when Iraq started saying things were fabricated. Maybe you were too young to remember all that but it did happen.

Atleast you admit it is irrational...there are more of your thoughts you need to realize that are irrational as well.

Actually I am a conservative because of my own thoughts. I did not wake up one day and decide to be a conservative...it has taken years of me looking at the left and saying, "What the **** are they thinking?" for me to become a conservative.

After reading your latest novel of ignorance I too got a good laugh.

 

Bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in which 19 America soldiers were killed and hundreds wounded by Osama bin Laden. 372 wounded

TWA Flight 800 exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on its way from New York to Paris. all dead

The U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, were bombed by terrorists, leaving 258 people dead and more than 5,000 injured.

Terrorism strikes and almost sinks the Destroyer USS Cole in Yemen.17 dead 37 wounded

1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured
1,000

1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five US military personnel

Oklahoma City Bombing, which sources say may have had middle eastern ties. 31 dead, between 150 and 200 injured, and 140 missing.

so that's 9 during the clinton era, 4 of which you conveniently omitted for sake of argument.

703 dead and 6609 wounded. isn't that enough of a wake up call?


thank whatever diety you hold dear that you are not president. we practiced isolationism up until WW2 where we tried to stay out of the fight altogether. what happened? Pearl Harbor was annihlated and the Lucitania was sunk. this country was attacked, unprovoked, and if we try isolationism again the same thing will probably happen. war will escalate around us and we will have no choice but to join the fray. personally i'm all for a skirmish here and there in an isolated theatre if it means we don't have to fight a war on a global scale.

poor example. if you are convicted of a crime in a country that is not your own you are subject to that country's punishments as well. basically what you are suggesting here is that israel turn thousands of prisoners loose into the streets and everything will magically fix its self. overe here in reality thing's don't work that way.

em·pire ( P ) (mpr)
n.

A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.

please explain how north korea is an empire?

exactly how did bush get us into "this mess"? the track record clearly shows that these terrorist attacks have been happening since before GW even considered running for president.

another thing. what is it that you think pulling out of iraq would accomplish? it's a bit late in the game to decide we don't want to play anymore. like it or not we're in it for the duration, whatever the outcome.

we didn't show them convincing enough evidence for france/germany/russia to pull out of their business deals with iraq. all 3 countrys with veto power in the UN, do you really think that the UN would've acted differently in any other situation?

actually.. not true. the amount of oil that we get from iraq is minimal. most actually comes from good ol USA(imagine that)saudi and kuwait, followed by venezuela and a few other south american countries.

on that same note how can you say it doesn't? there's the other side of your "coin" that you keep forgetting about.

the same can be said of liberals being granola eating, tree hugging, hippies.

personally i am in no way a bible thumper. that's an impossibility for an athiest, but thanks for the generalization. your ignorance shines through.

can't argue with you there. the principles taught in each are very good... but how they are used through interpretation is where we fall short.

 

I actually did want to see what your answers were only to see why you feel the way that you do. Your FACTS above are a little distorted, in that I don't believe that we WANTED war. But, as to not finding intact weaponry, I'll agree with that. As to the presumptions...whose are those? They're not mine. I, like you, hope that the unnaccounted for weapons did not go to an enemy of the US, and I would only ask that they be found, simply to squelch the naysayers AND offer some peace of mind that they did not, in fact, go to our enemies.

My two questions were actually fairly straightforward and were based primarily from reports out of the UN while it was conducting its weapons inspections. If you care to look, find some of Hans Blix's reports to the Security Council and you will see the unnaccounted for amounts. They were not meant to be trick questions, nor were they meant to draw you further into an argument. Until next time.

 

Well, "18secferio" (does that make you feel better?) as the old expression goes, "how can you argue with logic like that?" I wouldn't even know where to begin, since who knows where you'd end up taking it. Jeez, now you've brought in indians and slaves. What next?...Eve taking a bite out of the apple?

What intrigued me most, however, was this little gem:
That's one fine generalization you've made, considering you know absolutely nothing about me, other than the fact that you and I are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. What you have done here, though, is show how liberals are not really the open-minded persons they think they are.

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the reality is that you're conservative because you don't like to form your own thoughts. Its the same reason you're a bible thumper.

Never mind the fact that I'm not a "bible thumper," and I couldn't tell you the last time I went to church. What I find truly hilarious is that you accuse conservatives of not forming their own thoughts, but YOU are the one who started this entire thread by posting the work of SOMEONE ELSE!!! OMG, I'm LMFAO.

Let's see, who else has devoted time cutting and pasting to make points relative to their NON-conservative beliefs?...Odysseus and Sxecrow come to mind. Now, WHO doesn't like to form their own thoughts?

OK, I'm done...I can't stand this anymore. My sides hurt too much.

 

As much as you guys dont want to admit it, I have to say 18secFerio pretty much summed it up. This can go on and on and on until we have the longest thread but I see nothing in your arguements that persuade me to bow down and follow Bush on his crusade of American domination. We're not better than any other country, we're not the world police, and it's not our duty to kill people because they have different beliefs or because Emperor Bush believe's they're a terrorist. Go overseas and ask who the real terrorist is. I'm sure you conservatives will love the answer you get.

 

Lets just all get drunk and forget about war. Get the troops back home they need to drink too. Give the Iraqis some good booze, it'll make them like us.

 

That's EXACTLY what we don't need.

 

I want you to grow up in a third world country like Iraq and Afganistan and get kicked around by everyone. Your government fucks you, you're in poverty, things arn't good.

Guess what. Thats life. Nothings perfect.

But then, this other group of people come in and overthrow your government and tell you you're free. But life hasn't changed. Its still the same bullshit. Maybe you have better opertunities, but for what, money?

its still a shitty life regardless.

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Because it is documented!!!!!

NO, BECAUSE WE GAVE THEM TO THEM!!!!

thats right, we had a deal with Iraq to take care of Iran, and we armed the motherfuckers. Of course we think they have WMD. We gave them to them.

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Atleast you admit it is irrational...there are more of your thoughts you need to realize that are irrational as well.

oh, and you're thoughts arn't irrational as well?

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After reading your latest novel of ignorance I too got a good laugh.

yeah, irony's funny, isn't it?

people who shouldn't have been there in the first place

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TWA Flight 800 exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on its way from New York to Paris. all dead

thats not terror. That was a problem with the plane.

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so that's 9 during the clinton era, 4 of which you conveniently omitted for sake of argument.

actually, 8, and thats still even with bush.

but the only attacks on clintons watch that were on american soil wern't near as major as 9-11-01.

maybe clinton "didn't do anything" because he realized getting into a war with people you can't really fight and throwing your country over 4 billion in the whole "liberating" countrys for the sake of convenience.

but enough about clinton. I could care less about democrats.

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703 dead and 6609 wounded. isn't that enough of a wake up call?

700 dead doesn't make a good enough reason to call war on the world.

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thank whatever diety you hold dear that you are not president.

maybe I don't want to be

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we practiced isolationism up until WW2 where we tried to stay out of the fight altogether. what happened? Pearl Harbor was annihlated and the Lucitania was sunk.

you still think we didn't know about pearl harbor?

and the lucitania was carrying troops/weapons/supplies.

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this country was attacked, unprovoked, and if we try isolationism again the same thing will probably happen.

and when it does happen again, we'll jump into action like we did in WWI and WWII and kick some ass. Thats the real secret.

but still, that was the past, and things have infact changed. We're not fighting a fucking country anymore.

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war will escalate around us and we will have no choice but to join the fray.

but when there's no choice, options have been extinguished.

we're jumping the gun this time. I rather we go through all available meathods before we pick up a gun a kill someone.

there's other ways to work out things than measuring dicks.

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personally i'm all for a skirmish here and there in an isolated theatre if it means we don't have to fight a war on a global scale.

but we're indeed fighting on a global scale. It's not like all our problems are solved because we go into Iraq, or into Afganistan. We still have people out there who hate us. And if we keep doing the things that piss them off, they'll hate us more.

maybe the problem here is technollogy, and particularly, the mass-media. The more I think of it, the more it makes sense, or at least with americanized media/entertainment.

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basically what you are suggesting here is that israel turn thousands of prisoners loose into the streets and everything will magically fix its self. overe here in reality thing's don't work that way.

Oh come on. The isreali's are doing everything in their power to either arrest or kill as many palistanians as possible. So far they're doing a pretty damn good job.

but if the isreali's DID in fact release the prisoners, then the palistinians wouldn't have bombed the bus. Then the isreali's wouldn't have blown up the suspected hamas leader, and the road map to peace would still be in effect.

unfortunatly, isreal had to act tough, and because of it, we're all fucked.

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em·pire ( P ) (mpr)
n.

A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.

please explain how north korea is an empire?

they're more of an impire than Al Queda, or the Hamas.

how about this one:

diplomacy

\Di*plo"ma*cy\, n. [F. diplomatie. This word, like supremacy, retains the accent of its original. See Diploma.] 1. The art and practice of conducting negotiations between nations (particularly in securing treaties), including the methods and forms usually employed.

2. Dexterity or skill in securing advantages; tact.

3. The body of ministers or envoys resident at a court; the diplomatic body. [R.] --Burke.

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exactly how did bush get us into "this mess"? the track record clearly shows that these terrorist attacks have been happening since before GW even considered running for president.

true.

but terror isn't something new, either. Maybe to us, but please. Add up all the americans killed in terror attacks and compare it to other country's terror causualties.

Hell, look at the fucking IRA. Maybe the NRA, as well, who is pretty synonymus with the KKK.

I say bush got us into the mess because he had to be a fucking hero. He had to be his hick-ass self and say we'll take them all with one arm tied behind our back because we're strong.

but we're not as strong as we think we are, or at least more vulnerable than we think.

You know, if 9-11 happened, and bush said, "alright. Thats a wake up call to us. We realized why these people did this to us, and what upset them so much to the point that they hijacked 4 planes and did all this. Maybe we can learn something and perhaps fix it, so future generations can enjoy the same thing we do."

but no, he had to say "bring 'em on"

fucking hick....

and anybody, anybody who's actually been in a war, MAYBE I can see a reason for them to be like that. But look at bush. A c student at yale. A coke user. He didn't even serve in vietnam, and while he was in the texas air national guard, he skipped the final year and went AWOL so he could party. But since his dad was the leader of the CIA, hell, I guess he could do whatever he wanted, including thinking he's ceasar or some shit.

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another thing. what is it that you think pulling out of iraq would accomplish?

I'm sure the world would be rather agasp if america said "whoops, we were wrong"

really, its ok to admit that. Nobody is ever always right.

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it's a bit late in the game to decide we don't want to play anymore.

which is why I've been against this since day one. Maybe I should run for president.

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like it or not we're in it for the duration, whatever the outcome.

beleive me, I'm very well aware of it. I even said that, remember?

but just because we're stuck with it doesn't mean I have to like it.

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we didn't show them convincing enough evidence for france/germany/russia to pull out of their business deals with iraq.

and who are we to talk? Did america suddenly never deal with Iraq? Yes we did, if you remember the 80's all to well.

but we also funded the Taliban proir to the 9-11-01 attack. We also funded Osama. We also funded the Contra's in nicaragua. It's not as if our hands are clean.

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all 3 countrys with veto power in the UN, do you really think that the UN would've acted differently in any other situation?

I think when given the option of reasoning with these people, or trying to fight them on all sorts of fronts, the russians/french/germans all came to the proper conclusion.

but then again, russia, france and germany don't sport the highest deaths-by-guns badge that we love to show off, it seems. Maybe there's a reaon america wants blood so bad.

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actually.. not true. the amount of oil that we get from iraq is minimal. most actually comes from good ol USA(imagine that)saudi and kuwait, followed by venezuela and a few other south american countries.

the oil from here alone wouldn't be near enough for us. But the only reason oil from Iraq is minimal is because the UN kept sactioning them. I'm sure if pipelines weren't being blown up, Iraq would be producing much more oil today now that Halburton is in charge. I bet Dick is happy.

I guess there was another point about Iraq I didn't bring up. We knocked them out because they were the strongest nation in the region. With them out of the picture, what country in the region do we really have to fear?

and thats what it all boils down to, fear.

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on that same note how can you say it doesn't? there's the other side of your "coin" that you keep forgetting about.

not really. Every time I try to forget, you bastards keep bringing it up

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the same can be said of liberals being granola eating, tree hugging, hippies.

true, But I'm not a liberal, jackass. Libertarians are slightly different.

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personally i am in no way a bible thumper. that's an impossibility for an athiest, but thanks for the generalization. your ignorance shines through.

but the cool thing about generalizations, is in fact, they're generally right.

Look at most conservatives. People who love to worship God, love to fear what they don't understand, and go on about there lives like them and only them are the only thing that matters.

how considerate.

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can't argue with you there. the principles taught in each are very good... but how they are used through interpretation is where we fall short.

so you think maybe it would benifit us to work on that and maybe come to an understanding? Or maybe throwing rocks is the best idea?

what does it matter to you?

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Your FACTS above are a little distorted,

and yours arn't?

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in that I don't believe that we WANTED war.

we sure didn't NOT want it. Otherwise, I'd be alot happier today.

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But, as to not finding intact weaponry, I'll agree with that.

which is pretty much my strongest point. I'm still waiting, btw.

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I, like you, hope that the unnaccounted for weapons did not go to an enemy of the US,

honestly, at this point, I could care less anymore. It's clear to me the end is in sight, so in my veiw, this would just bring us one step closer to the next movement. Change is good.


then don't, stupid fuck.

I'm not here to amuse you bitches. I titled this thread "For those of you against the war" because I, for one second, actually thought there might have been some like minded individuals. But unfortunatly, they usually seem to be lazy.

this thread was put here to give some insight to what I beleive is right. Sure I proded you conservatives on with some tounge-in-check humor about "can't wait to say I told you so" but thats my nature. I'm very jovial like that. But if you can't take the joke, don't post on this thread.

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I wouldn't even know where to begin, since who knows where you'd end up taking it. Jeez, now you've brought in indians and slaves. What next?...Eve taking a bite out of the apple?

not really, I think Eve is a bunch of bullshit.

but if you think our past has nothing to do with this, you're more a fool than myself.

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What intrigued me most, however, was this little gem:

That's one fine generalization you've made, considering you know absolutely nothing about me, other than the fact that you and I are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. What you have done here, though, is show how liberals are not really the open-minded persons they think they are.

oh come on. Where the fuck did I say I'm perfect? Of course I'm gonna sit here and bullshit and say conservatives are all the same. Christ, thats because most of them are. But ahhhh, we're all youth. Thats the difference.

you guys aren't in charge. People like my assumption are. I think I hit the nail on the head with what I was getting at.

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Never mind the fact that I'm not a "bible thumper," and I couldn't tell you the last time I went to church. What I find truly hilarious is that you accuse conservatives of not forming their own thoughts, but YOU are the one who started this entire thread by posting the work of SOMEONE ELSE!!! OMG, I'm LMFAO.

that someone else is my good friend matt. Him and me are very similar, but where he is more passive, I'm very tenasious in my beleifs. Thats probably why you don't see him posting any comments. But he's got an account on here.

still, he does very little. When he's not in school, he sits around alot on the internet, looking up all kinds of shit that I don't have the time to sit through looking at. I'm online what, maybe an hour a day. Other than the internet, its very hard to find people with similar idea's as mine.

now then, the reason I said all conservatives are the same, and not forming their own thoughts, is because they really arn't. They're more or less acting on impulses driven by fear.

maybe I did get off it, and forgot to bring this up. But the fact is, you guys are afraid. You love "freedom" too much to let go, and you'd do anything in order to hold on to it. Big deal. Its just life, and life is half the equation in our reality, for there's the other half that we don't understand, which drives most of us to the fear, and that thing is Death.

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Let's see, who else has devoted time cutting and pasting to make points relative to their NON-conservative beliefs?...Odysseus and Sxecrow come to mind. Now, WHO doesn't like to form their own thoughts?

who started this thread?

if you don't read all my shit, don't post in my fucking thread.

you see, your problem is you don't read all my shit, and you miss points I bring up that are very reasonable. Read below, you dumbass, maybe you'll learn something.

you see, this right here is my point. But you like to attack me, and I'll be the first to admit, I make myself an easy target. But still, you fail to take my message serious. Maybe you shouldn't, maybe there's no reason for you to, and I'm sure if I was you, I wouldn't either. But if you seriously can't read all my post in here, and see this is the conclusion I'm trying to draw, then you'd make the perfect american: blind. For in the land of the blind, the man with one eye leads.

guess what. Both of my eyes are fucking open.

There's a thing called Irony, there's a thing called a metaphore, and there's a thing called a similie. and no, it's not just limited to grammar and english class. These things are very universal.

acutally, I think legalization of drugs might improve things

south america gets money for cocain, weed. Their economy flurishes.

middle east gets money for herion, opium, hashish, etc. Their economy flurishes.

everyone knows drugs kill. but if we teach proper drug education, then there wouldn't really be a problem, and then 3rd world countrys wouldn't be as bad.

I concure.

and no, I'm not mad.

No, I'm not upset.

Yes, I use vulgarity to emphisise my fucking point.