Ralph Nader for President!
#31
Originally Posted by AccordSleeper
well if it wasn't for nader most likely gore would have won last,
so i would think nader will steal away more democratic votes this time around.
I mean, I'm no fan of Bush either, but the last thing I'd want to do is vote for someone who could potentially become worse than him.
since i'm a bush supporter i hope this does happen.
even my father, the ultra-conservative, is starting to dislike bush.
living in texas, and having him as a former governer, I knew he wasn't the brightest light bulb out there, but he choose what I thought could be a great cabinet.... Who, as recent events have shown, isn't as great as I thought....
just a note: Bush put more inmates to death than any modern American Governer.... Any.
i honestly don't understand why people would support nader since he doesn't have a good chance of winning.
remember when segrigation was right? or male superiority?
times have changed.....
a 3 party system in politics just screws everything up, but hey if some stupid liberals want to waste a vote on some guy who won't win and take away votes from a liberal who can win than i'm all for it.
So what then, should I vote for someone I don't agree with, like Bush? Should I vote for someone who doesn't take a fixed stand at ANYTHING, like Kerry? How would this not be wasting a vote?
.....but what am I, but some "stupid liberal"
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
18Sec, it's nice to see that you're completely buying into the spin that Nader has posted on his website just because you want to make the "outsider" choice.
I didn't know you knew me so well.....
Frankly, I come to beleive what I do because I think it is right. Because I'm an idealist who doesn't like to be told how it is, and I like to go out and actually experieince it for myself, and draw my own conclusions.
so they happen to not go with the flow all the time :dunno: I guess that just means I do it on purpose so people will think I'm coll
He's not going to get elected, and the issues he's supposedly trying to bring to light as a third party are nothing even close to revolutionary.
and I'm aware that its nothing revolutionary, but in a time where Republicans are trying to tighten their grasp of power even more (redistricting), and Demo's are still crying over '00 (the anti-bush bandwagon as of the past year (what have I been saying all along about iraq? since the fawking begining....) not to mention the sour feelings twords nader)......
you know, I'm surprised more demo's don't wake up to the fact that their party is a joke. Sure, its the lesser of two evils in one respect, but they're evil none the less.....
given the choice between bush and the demo's, I'd just not vote. But if I didn't vote, who would I be?
thus, the reason for Nader running.....
Thanks so much for the bump, because we all care so much.
Originally Posted by brtecson
ok, if he's against back and forth bs, then he's all for back and forth and back again politics. and for the 60% who wouldn't have otherwise voted, the other 40% would have voted for who:thinking:?? i'm sure that 40% of his FL votes would have turned the ballot the other way.
Figure 40% of the 4% is alot to make a difference? How about this:
Take florida for example. 25% of naders votes came from Democrats. 38% came from republicans. Does that not seem strange?
There's so much bullshit that went on during the 2000 election its not even funny. Especially in Florida. 38% of naders votes were republicans? Maybe there was a problem with the booths :fawk:
but whatever. Keep lying to yourself and saying Nader blew gores chance at winning. Point is, Gore DIDN'T win. Get over it. I did, despite my feelings for bush.....
Originally Posted by NorCal DC4
As much as I encourage the principle of a bona-fide third party, and keeping in mind the phenomenal accomplishments Nader made in the 20th Century, he has become a romantic anachronism in the 21st Century.
Give me someone better, and I'll vote for them. But I'll be damned to vote one of the two parties before I vote Nader.
This is the time for Dems to pull together, set a solid game plan and focus on one thing: ensuring that G.W.B is a one-term-wonder like his father. Starting with Bush's record - something that I feel Gore failed to use effectively in 2000 - is a good starting point. Kerry has the requisite foresight to make this happen.
please, even Bush is more predicatable than Kerry. I much rather have a warmonger I can kinda understand vs. someone whom I don't even know what he beleives in.
In short, I doubt Ralph will even make it on the ballots.
besides, 700,000 signatures isn't easy.....
Originally Posted by Hondapower10a
I learned a long time ago that there are two kinds of discussions not to get entangled in:
-politics
-religion
Therefore, I'm going to keep my opinion to myself and not let you hear it, even though I know you're dying to know.
-politics
-religion
Therefore, I'm going to keep my opinion to myself and not let you hear it, even though I know you're dying to know.
Originally Posted by NorCal DC4
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm very frustrated with Nader, and have expressed these thoughts on RalphDon'tRun. This is not the time for him to go ego-tripping on the campaign trail. Even if Nader makes it on to the California ballot, I feel very confident that his impact will be minimal at best.
Democrats have very hostile feelings twords nader. Again, they think he cost Gore the election.
Gore screwed himself. If he didn't blow it in the NWern states, florida wouldn't have even been a problem....
And while we're at it...explain to me the argument against Kerry in NH and MA. I'm curious to see what makes him so undesirable...:eh:
Originally Posted by AccordSleeper
since he is a MA senator, the people around here have known about him and his past, whereas much of america doesn't. alot of it has to do with his anti-war actions after his military service. most people around here simply don't trust the guy. how can you...he is the richest the senator with a wife who is heir to heinz fortunes, do you really think he cares about the lower/middle class?? he has ties with the kennedys and constantly changes his views. i can understand not liking bush and all and wanting change, but kerry is not the democrat for change.
I totally agree with you
however....
what he is though, is the only guy who can beat bush. so maybe that's reason enough to support him if your a democrat.
come on, thats obsured.... But thats just me....
#32
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
Kerry's anti-war actions after getting back from Vietnam were actually one of the things that drew me to him back when there were 9 candidates in the race.
I don't blame him for being anti-war after Vietnam. Most everyone was. That was a fawked up deal.
Anyway as for Nader, there were essentially two groups of voters I noticed for him back in 2000.
First you had more left-leaning folks that would generally vote for a democrat but decided to go for Nader since they didn't think a bumbling idiot like Bush would actually get elected. Also they were sort of complacent since they thought Gore was a shoe-in what with being the vice president of a two-term incumbent. So they figured it was a good time to make a statement. Stuff like the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve and Nader running with the Green party energized the environmentalists.
The other group were your sort of anti establishment hippie types that can't actually participate in a political dialogue and wanted to vote Nader because of some stoned musings about how "the two parties are all the same, man!" I was pretty stoned at the time myself so don't think these kind of views are simply the product of enjoying a good toke now and again. I like to call this group the stoners in the absence of logic, as opposed to logicians that like to get stoned.
First you had more left-leaning folks that would generally vote for a democrat but decided to go for Nader since they didn't think a bumbling idiot like Bush would actually get elected. Also they were sort of complacent since they thought Gore was a shoe-in what with being the vice president of a two-term incumbent. So they figured it was a good time to make a statement. Stuff like the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve and Nader running with the Green party energized the environmentalists.
The other group were your sort of anti establishment hippie types that can't actually participate in a political dialogue and wanted to vote Nader because of some stoned musings about how "the two parties are all the same, man!" I was pretty stoned at the time myself so don't think these kind of views are simply the product of enjoying a good toke now and again. I like to call this group the stoners in the absence of logic, as opposed to logicians that like to get stoned.
of course, this being the internet, and you not knowing very much about me, I have no reason to be mad.
you're just ignorant.
#33
Originally Posted by 18secFerio
There's so much bullshit that went on during the 2000 election its not even funny. Especially in Florida. 38% of naders votes were republicans? Maybe there was a problem with the booths :fawk:
but whatever. Keep lying to yourself and saying Nader blew gores chance at winning. Point is, Gore DIDN'T win. Get over it. I did, despite my feelings for bush.....
but whatever. Keep lying to yourself and saying Nader blew gores chance at winning. Point is, Gore DIDN'T win. Get over it. I did, despite my feelings for bush.....
cording to CBS News exit polling from the 2000 election, Nader's voters were twice as likely to be Democrats as Republicans – 24% of Nader voters were Democrats; 12 percent were Republicans. Sixty-four percent of his voters were Independents.
#34
Originally Posted by brtecson
according to cbs.. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in589996.shtml ....
i seem to be finding these numbers everywhere. where are you getting that 38% of his votes were from republicans?
i seem to be finding these numbers everywhere. where are you getting that 38% of his votes were from republicans?
38% was an exit poll in florida
#35
Originally Posted by 18secFerio
but with his voting on GWI and GWII, his stance on Minimal sentencing, and other such nonesense, how can you overlook that?
I don't blame him for being anti-war after Vietnam. Most everyone was. That was a fawked up deal.
I don't blame him for being anti-war after Vietnam. Most everyone was. That was a fawked up deal.
heh, if I thought you were talking about me, I'd might actually get mad.
of course, this being the internet, and you not knowing very much about me, I have no reason to be mad.
you're just ignorant.
of course, this being the internet, and you not knowing very much about me, I have no reason to be mad.
you're just ignorant.
#36
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
Because I want to vote for the person that is most likely to unseat Bush. A vote for a candidate that I know has no chance of being elected, does nothing to help get rid of Bush. Aside from that I don't think Nader has the sense to realistically run the country and I disagree with some of his points of view; but the overriding thing is that I choose to vote for someone that at the very least will be an improvement over Bush.
remembering where I live, you'll understand why I didn't care that much when Bush wins texas again, more reason to vote for Nader
Don't flatter yourself. If you improved your reading comprehension skills you would see that in fact, I was talking about my observations of actual people back in 2000. You know, those carbon-based life forms that sit in front of their computers and type things?
#37
Originally Posted by 18secFerio
I don't understand why anyone could still be supporting him.....
even my father, the ultra-conservative, is starting to dislike bush.
living in texas, and having him as a former governer, I knew he wasn't the brightest light bulb out there, but he choose what I thought could be a great cabinet.... Who, as recent events have shown, isn't as great as I thought....
just a note: Bush put more inmates to death than any modern American Governer.... Any.
even my father, the ultra-conservative, is starting to dislike bush.
living in texas, and having him as a former governer, I knew he wasn't the brightest light bulb out there, but he choose what I thought could be a great cabinet.... Who, as recent events have shown, isn't as great as I thought....
just a note: Bush put more inmates to death than any modern American Governer.... Any.
Originally Posted by 18secFerio
I do not agree with this. I know, I hate bush.... But I'm not gonna compromise my beliefs just "to beat bush."
come on, thats obsured.... But thats just me....
come on, thats obsured.... But thats just me....