questions about the Christian faith
05-11-2006 | 05:53 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by CRAIGHIMSELF
Heres one for you:
If God is omnipontent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and morally perfect, then how does evil exist? Wouldnt that contradict his characteristics? Sure we're given free will, but isnt it logically possible for good to create a human with less evil with the same free will? See, the problem with this is that it questions Gods goodness and power. Since we're supposed to live in his eyes, why are men so evil? Is it moral evil? Since we have free will, maybe evil is created by humans......
And the reason that its hard to believe/have faith in something we cant prove is a simple concept. We base our knowledge of perceptions that are confirmed with other perceptions on a daily basis. By looking at my chair, I know its a chair. Its a daily occurence. But you cant do that with religion simply because it cant be confirmed the way other things are.
If God is omnipontent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and morally perfect, then how does evil exist? Wouldnt that contradict his characteristics? Sure we're given free will, but isnt it logically possible for good to create a human with less evil with the same free will? See, the problem with this is that it questions Gods goodness and power. Since we're supposed to live in his eyes, why are men so evil? Is it moral evil? Since we have free will, maybe evil is created by humans......
And the reason that its hard to believe/have faith in something we cant prove is a simple concept. We base our knowledge of perceptions that are confirmed with other perceptions on a daily basis. By looking at my chair, I know its a chair. Its a daily occurence. But you cant do that with religion simply because it cant be confirmed the way other things are.
And with so many flaws and holes in the bible and the fact that it first started to be written almost a full century after christ, how do we know that it's an accurate recording of jesus? For all we know, Paul, who began writing about jesus almost a full century later, could have been completely nuts and made the whole thing up!
And to discredit the possiblilities of creationists theories, we are on the road to finding out the scientific truths about evolution. Remember just a few weeks back when they found a fish with a neck? This was the creationists major argument against evolutionists - there was no proof that anything evolved from the seas to create land creatures. Now there is. It's just a small link to figuring out where we came from..."chicken or the egg"?...might be a fish.
Last edited by Duff Man; 05-11-2006 at 05:57 PM.
05-11-2006 | 06:05 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Lueb
why is it whenever i meet really religious people of each religion, the fucking christians try to press their beliefs on me?
An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws, a judge said Sunday."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...convert20.html
Some muslims later spoke about dragging him into the street and ripping him apart in front of the city square...pulling his limbs apart and literally ripping his entire body in half.
05-11-2006 | 06:15 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by jchoi
hello i am new, hope it's ok that i reply on any forums.
duffman you make an interesting point. there are numerous people in the world who choose to take things to the extreme, those commonly known as extremists, but just because there are people like that doesn't mean you can portray all people of religion like that. i myself categorize myself as a christian, but i don't go crazy about faith all the time. i doubt myself and question religion continuously. there aren't many scientific proofs that can explain what religion is and if it's true, but there also aren't proofs that disprove religion.
people can say darwin made a good point, his theory of evolution, but that's the thing, it's just a theory. all science is made up of theories. nothing can be proven 100%.
duffman you make an interesting point. there are numerous people in the world who choose to take things to the extreme, those commonly known as extremists, but just because there are people like that doesn't mean you can portray all people of religion like that. i myself categorize myself as a christian, but i don't go crazy about faith all the time. i doubt myself and question religion continuously. there aren't many scientific proofs that can explain what religion is and if it's true, but there also aren't proofs that disprove religion.
people can say darwin made a good point, his theory of evolution, but that's the thing, it's just a theory. all science is made up of theories. nothing can be proven 100%.
05-11-2006 | 08:31 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by MellowGold
Taek, you sound like an intelligent man (or women?) and it has been a long time since I've had a good, hard debate about religion, so I believe I will enjoy this.
To begin:
Emotions are tangible. They consist of chemicals released into your brain. Happiness, anger, depression, all can be shown to be workings of the brain. Drugs and alcohol artifically manipulate these chemicals, causing sensations of extreme happiness (high) followed by an extreme reversal (the 'coming down').
Love? I'm going to assume you have had your own experiances with love. As such, you should know that love is usually an attempt at filling a 'missing' part of yourself. Beyond that, 'love' is usually feelings of trust, companionship, and friendship all bunched up in one. It is a natural response to human loneliness. I do not deny the existence of love. In fact, love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. It is not, however, a 'mystical' feeling without any reasonable backing behind it.
Some people need religion. Just as love, it fills a 'missing' part of them. However, as in love, it is easy to become too comfortable with your faith. In that case, people start to become blind and illogical. Have you been in a relationship where, in the back of your mind you KNOW that the relationship is not working, but you continue it anyway for the sake of it being comfortable?
And my favorate part...
What scientific proof do you have that afferms your faith?
To begin:
Emotions are tangible. They consist of chemicals released into your brain. Happiness, anger, depression, all can be shown to be workings of the brain. Drugs and alcohol artifically manipulate these chemicals, causing sensations of extreme happiness (high) followed by an extreme reversal (the 'coming down').
Love? I'm going to assume you have had your own experiances with love. As such, you should know that love is usually an attempt at filling a 'missing' part of yourself. Beyond that, 'love' is usually feelings of trust, companionship, and friendship all bunched up in one. It is a natural response to human loneliness. I do not deny the existence of love. In fact, love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. It is not, however, a 'mystical' feeling without any reasonable backing behind it.
Some people need religion. Just as love, it fills a 'missing' part of them. However, as in love, it is easy to become too comfortable with your faith. In that case, people start to become blind and illogical. Have you been in a relationship where, in the back of your mind you KNOW that the relationship is not working, but you continue it anyway for the sake of it being comfortable?
And my favorate part...
What scientific proof do you have that afferms your faith?
It backs up scientific study on human emotion. Human emotion is what drives us and human emotion is caused by triggers in the brain.
Thank you for bringing this up. It's a rational argument that I usually use and have avoided in this thread for political reasons that I was hoping to exploit when givin the chance. But since you've now entertained this logic, I'm just gonna flow with it
05-11-2006 | 10:11 PM
#25
got the nuts
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From: emerald city
Originally Posted by CRAIGHIMSELF
Heres one for you:
If God is omnipontent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and morally perfect, then how does evil exist? Wouldnt that contradict his characteristics? Sure we're given free will, but isnt it logically possible for good to create a human with less evil with the same free will? See, the problem with this is that it questions Gods goodness and power. Since we're supposed to live in his eyes, why are men so evil? Is it moral evil? Since we have free will, maybe evil is created by humans......
If God is omnipontent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and morally perfect, then how does evil exist? Wouldnt that contradict his characteristics? Sure we're given free will, but isnt it logically possible for good to create a human with less evil with the same free will? See, the problem with this is that it questions Gods goodness and power. Since we're supposed to live in his eyes, why are men so evil? Is it moral evil? Since we have free will, maybe evil is created by humans......
but evil from the beginning would have to start with lucifer. he was an angel, but he was greedy and wanted to become stronger than God, so he gathered some of his fellow angels and tried to take God's power. God then basically pwned him and sent him to hell. and that's how evil is existent.
there still could be the question of "why doesn't God just get rid of satan/evil?" well it says in the bible that he will, but in due time.
05-12-2006 | 07:52 AM
#26
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pronounced tech
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From: down at Va Beach
Originally Posted by Duff Man
And to discredit the possiblilities of creationists theories, we are on the road to finding out the scientific truths about evolution. Remember just a few weeks back when they found a fish with a neck? This was the creationists major argument against evolutionists - there was no proof that anything evolved from the seas to create land creatures. Now there is. It's just a small link to figuring out where we came from..."chicken or the egg"?...might be a fish.
its happened where an animal will adapt to a sudden change in its native environment by starting to grow a thicker coat of fur to protect itself from gradually colder conditions over the span of decades, even centuries, or maybe shed more hair and have a lighter coat for the opposite. but a fox wont try to go out of its own habitat to live in conditions that would be worse for it, and then spend several thousand years trying to get itself to adapt. it would die off before anything could really take place.
to even think that an organism like a fish would somehow grow a neck and then decide it would be more beneficial to live on land than in water is a mind-numbing statistic.
people claim that there are wholes w/in the bible, but upon cross-referencing and using scientific/anthropological and other methods of corroboration, there are very few holes, if any, that remain.
05-12-2006 | 09:04 AM
#27
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From: Sloppy onshore junk.
But heres the thing with evil and its established meaning. Not everyone lives in the same scociety, ergo, rules and cultures are completely different. Some would go as far to suggest that whatever is normal (in that culture) is moral. Certain tribes/religious sect still believe cannabalism is legit because its been a part of that culture for centuries and that by eating the flesh of another as a sacrifice, they are inheriting that persons soul and powers. Theyve grown to know this so it is right in their eyes. Who are we to say that theyre wrong?
See everything, in my eyes, is circular. For example, some people view Christianity in this sence: 1. The Bible is the word of God. 2. The Bible says God exists. 3. Therefore, God exists. Basically A+B=C. There isnt really any full proof evidence.
See everything, in my eyes, is circular. For example, some people view Christianity in this sence: 1. The Bible is the word of God. 2. The Bible says God exists. 3. Therefore, God exists. Basically A+B=C. There isnt really any full proof evidence.
05-12-2006 | 10:08 AM
#28
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pronounced tech
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From: down at Va Beach
Originally Posted by CRAIGHIMSELF
But heres the thing with evil and its established meaning. Not everyone lives in the same scociety, ergo, rules and cultures are completely different. Some would go as far to suggest that whatever is normal (in that culture) is moral. Certain tribes/religious sect still believe cannabalism is legit because its been a part of that culture for centuries and that by eating the flesh of another as a sacrifice, they are inheriting that persons soul and powers. Theyve grown to know this so it is right in their eyes. Who are we to say that theyre wrong?
See everything, in my eyes, is circular. For example, some people view Christianity in this sence: 1. The Bible is the word of God. 2. The Bible says God exists. 3. Therefore, God exists. Basically A+B=C. There isnt really any full proof evidence.
See everything, in my eyes, is circular. For example, some people view Christianity in this sence: 1. The Bible is the word of God. 2. The Bible says God exists. 3. Therefore, God exists. Basically A+B=C. There isnt really any full proof evidence.
and yeah, the whole idea of "proof" is still tied to faith. faith w/o "proof", or a means of being shown real, is useless. at the same time, proof w/o faith is just as meaningless. different sides to the same coin.
its crazy! :loco:
05-12-2006 | 11:44 AM
#29
More Black on Black Crime
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted by jchoi
it's just a theory.
.you gotta give em more credit than that.
the·o·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
theory > fairytale.
Last edited by aux; 05-12-2006 at 11:48 AM.
05-13-2006 | 03:35 PM
#30
got the nuts
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From: emerald city
Originally Posted by aux
im sick of people constantly saying "it's just a theory." Most repeated line ever. .
you gotta give em more credit than that.
the·o·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
theory > fairytale.
.you gotta give em more credit than that.
the·o·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
theory > fairytale.
and according to evolution and natural selection, an organism slowly adapts to its environment in order to survive. .... so there has to be intermediate stages betweeen organisms right? according to evolution a bat and a whale come from a common ancestor. so if this is true, then why hasn't a single person found any records/fossils of any of the stages between different organisms. if someone ever finds one, then evolution could actually seem like a reasonable idea.