SHO stopper
03-13-2003 | 08:27 AM
#21
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Oh, just to correct a few other wrong statements:
0-60 by Road and Track was 7.4 seconds and 1/4 mile was 15.7 @ 90.1 mph.
Many SHO V8 owners have broken into the high 14's without anything other than improved cold air intake and driver skill. Still the typical SHO V8 is a mid to high 15 second car for most people.
144 mph pure stock for top end.
Self adjusting suspension unlike anything on comparably priced cars.
Styling? This is a personal thing. But the Gen 3 SHO is aging much better than many cars. (note: Gen 1 is 1989 to 1991, Gen 2 is 1992-1995, Gen 3 is 1996-1999. The Taurus Gen IV is 2k and up. Ford lumps 1985-1995 Taurus's together in Gen 1 for some reason)
And handling? many "family sedans" and quite a few "sport coupes" wish they could handle as well. Read the Magazine tests of the time. Even the American press. They seem to hate anything non-german or Japanese, and they loved the SHO, and it made many 10 best lists. That is an honor that can't be taken away or ignored.
Cost: Yes it WAS near 30 grand, but it was loaded with features and quality that you can't get in the regular Taurus. Driving the Duratech Taurus back to back with A SHO will prove that while built on the same assembly line, they are NOT the same car. And the SHO was Cheap compared to anything else in its class. If you waited past the first year hysteria, you could buy one for 8-10 grand off sometimes. What a deal, superb car, bargain price!
AND, about that V8 motor; while the basic block is based on the duratech V6, only the bore centers and other hard points are the same. The motor was designed with major input by Yamaha in Japan. The Block all aluminum block and heads (with a girdle lower block that is a GREAT design feature) was cast by COSWORTH (yes that one) in Canada and the motor was completed by Yamaha in Japan.
The cam problem is the only major problem with the motor, the car itself is very dependable, the transmission is still a problem, but not epidemic.
Repair costs are usually less than for imports, other than the motor.
I am disappointed that Ford has not done the right thing and addressed the cam problem, but as a group we have come up with a solution (welding the offending sprockets to the cam shaft) that is affordable, and solves the problem completely. As a group we are doing what Ford won't, because we love the car and don't want to give them up.
0-60 by Road and Track was 7.4 seconds and 1/4 mile was 15.7 @ 90.1 mph.
Many SHO V8 owners have broken into the high 14's without anything other than improved cold air intake and driver skill. Still the typical SHO V8 is a mid to high 15 second car for most people.
144 mph pure stock for top end.
Self adjusting suspension unlike anything on comparably priced cars.
Styling? This is a personal thing. But the Gen 3 SHO is aging much better than many cars. (note: Gen 1 is 1989 to 1991, Gen 2 is 1992-1995, Gen 3 is 1996-1999. The Taurus Gen IV is 2k and up. Ford lumps 1985-1995 Taurus's together in Gen 1 for some reason)
And handling? many "family sedans" and quite a few "sport coupes" wish they could handle as well. Read the Magazine tests of the time. Even the American press. They seem to hate anything non-german or Japanese, and they loved the SHO, and it made many 10 best lists. That is an honor that can't be taken away or ignored.
Cost: Yes it WAS near 30 grand, but it was loaded with features and quality that you can't get in the regular Taurus. Driving the Duratech Taurus back to back with A SHO will prove that while built on the same assembly line, they are NOT the same car. And the SHO was Cheap compared to anything else in its class. If you waited past the first year hysteria, you could buy one for 8-10 grand off sometimes. What a deal, superb car, bargain price!
AND, about that V8 motor; while the basic block is based on the duratech V6, only the bore centers and other hard points are the same. The motor was designed with major input by Yamaha in Japan. The Block all aluminum block and heads (with a girdle lower block that is a GREAT design feature) was cast by COSWORTH (yes that one) in Canada and the motor was completed by Yamaha in Japan.
The cam problem is the only major problem with the motor, the car itself is very dependable, the transmission is still a problem, but not epidemic.
Repair costs are usually less than for imports, other than the motor.
I am disappointed that Ford has not done the right thing and addressed the cam problem, but as a group we have come up with a solution (welding the offending sprockets to the cam shaft) that is affordable, and solves the problem completely. As a group we are doing what Ford won't, because we love the car and don't want to give them up.
03-13-2003 | 08:34 AM
#23
Thread Starter
HC Racer H5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
From: KCK
we all have our likes and dislikes...those like the larger heavier more powerful engines that require a heavier car making them feel more stable
as for a 3300lb v8 fwd car sounds like a recipe for a stop light fwd drag racer b/c torque steer, the inherent push of a heavy front end, and traction issues must be so very apparent on a road race track...i've driven the older sho yamaha v6 cars...the engine was very promising but the chassis was an ultimate let down when pushed near its limits
i don't just think this way about the sho but all heavy fwd sporty sedans with large engines and high horsepower...they may be nice highway cruisers and have some sport but cannot overcome its weight and the control you lose
our criteria are inherently different as i oppose heavy cars as it hurts all performance areas
anyway...welcome to our little world and most of us are accepting of other car makes
as for a 3300lb v8 fwd car sounds like a recipe for a stop light fwd drag racer b/c torque steer, the inherent push of a heavy front end, and traction issues must be so very apparent on a road race track...i've driven the older sho yamaha v6 cars...the engine was very promising but the chassis was an ultimate let down when pushed near its limits
i don't just think this way about the sho but all heavy fwd sporty sedans with large engines and high horsepower...they may be nice highway cruisers and have some sport but cannot overcome its weight and the control you lose
our criteria are inherently different as i oppose heavy cars as it hurts all performance areas
anyway...welcome to our little world and most of us are accepting of other car makes
03-13-2003 | 08:58 AM
#25
Toyota Racing = Cheaters
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,536
Likes: 0
Holy sh*t, I can't believe we got someone from the article posting here. 
Hey Don, I can respect you guys for loving your SHOs. I really do like the Taurus SHO, especially the 2nd gen one. If it wasn't for the bubbly shape of the 3rd gen, I'd give it a big :thumbup:.
Don't be too offended by some of the antics of criticism of other cars and makes going on around in a Honda forum, especially with the Ford remarks with all the quality issues and recalls as of late. Ford is just too easy of a target as of late. :happysad:
Hey Don, I can respect you guys for loving your SHOs. I really do like the Taurus SHO, especially the 2nd gen one. If it wasn't for the bubbly shape of the 3rd gen, I'd give it a big :thumbup:.
Don't be too offended by some of the antics of criticism of other cars and makes going on around in a Honda forum, especially with the Ford remarks with all the quality issues and recalls as of late. Ford is just too easy of a target as of late. :happysad:
03-13-2003 | 10:39 AM
#26
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Good post Don, and welcome to this forum. I hope you take it upon yourself to visit again 
Surmising from your post, I would say you have above average intelligence, it's just that American wasn't producing many good vehicles when the Taurus SHO was around. I'd have to disagree with you on the handling...in 1994, maybe, but stepping out of my old Acura RSX Type-S...I doubt it. From what I remember driving a V8 SHO on a test drive, I remember the interior quality was subpar and the handling was good but I did not feel very confident driving it fast around corners. Of course, maybe it had been treated poorly and the suspension components had gone bad.
Just out of curiousity, were you referred to this thread or did you find it yourself?
Surmising from your post, I would say you have above average intelligence, it's just that American wasn't producing many good vehicles when the Taurus SHO was around. I'd have to disagree with you on the handling...in 1994, maybe, but stepping out of my old Acura RSX Type-S...I doubt it. From what I remember driving a V8 SHO on a test drive, I remember the interior quality was subpar and the handling was good but I did not feel very confident driving it fast around corners. Of course, maybe it had been treated poorly and the suspension components had gone bad.Just out of curiousity, were you referred to this thread or did you find it yourself?
03-13-2003 | 01:07 PM
#28
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
OK, I said I probabaly wouldn't be back, but some others commented that you guys were pretty nice about my comments (as I hoped you would be) and so I took another look.
Chalk up one for "car geeks" being generally nice people once you get past the hype!
Jaje, I agree, a 3300+ pound FWD car just isn't going to handle like a much ligher car. But then, to someone in a Lotus, your CRX probably feels like a barge. It is all in perception. I don't desire an ultralight autocrosser, I need cars I can use in the real world, carry four or five real adults in and STILL take out on the track. My '89 has been on Road Atlanta, Hallett, Summit Point, Blackhawk Farms, Mid-Ohio, and many more.
My car in mostly stock configuration beat the tar out of a LOT of much nicer wheels in the 1996 One Lap of America where we scored a trophy for third place in the Mid price sedan class out of almost 20 cars. We were the oldest, lowest HP, highest mile car in the class, but thanks to a superb driver (not me, but a semi-pro friend of mine) we beat a lot of cars including a 1996 Maxima driven by a hired gun pro driver! This proves that the SHO, when properly driven can hold its own.
My 89 now has Eibach springs, Koni adjustible shocks, and improved brakes. It can turn with a LOT of smaller sports cars. I run 245-45-16 race rubber on the track. BEst 1/4 mile of 15.00 (SOO close to the 14's!) at 96 mph (making good hp with a few bolt-on's, no power adder or chip).
Kazi, I agree, Ford IS an easy target...
98CoupeV6, one of your members that also owns a SHO posted the link on the V8SHO mailing list. A group of maybe 500 SHO fanatics that talk about a lot of stuff. There are another 800 or so on the V6 SHO mailing list, and we have over 1000 members of the national club.
As I said, compared to some cars, yes the SHO will feel heavy and less agile. But I think you fall into the same trap that a lot of magazine writers fall into. comparing apples to oranges. The SHO is what it is. A fairly large, fairly powerful four door sedan. IF I wanted a tool for all out racing I would buy a 911 or something smaller. I want my room and a good highway ride. A car I can take on 1000 mile day drives AND still get 10/10th from on a track or at the autocross. It is even fun at the drags, but will never beat a Mustang 0-60. But give me an older 5.0L in a 20 mph roll to 100 mph and I will SHOw him my taillights!
I wish the SHO group had as much or as cheap of mods as you Honda folk have available, but again, I and the rest of my SHO buddies knew what we were getting when we bought in.
And thanks for the heads-up on Beemer and Bimmer. I had heard that before, it just isn't information that rates a permanent spot in my brain, since I have to remember all this SHO stuff!
Maybe I will come back to talk about how you get such little motors to go so fast! (hint to myself, take out 1000 pounds, Put on power adders and wheelie bars and slicks. )
BTW, we do have some blown SHO's in the 13's, a couple are tickling with the 12's! at over 110 mph. Without slicks or wheelie bars. One stock SHO got to the high 13's by just cutting out about 1000 pounds of weight as an experiment.
And way back in 1990/1991, a team of SHO's was running the Firestone Firehawk series with Mustangs/Firebirds/Camaros. They even won a race (Atlanta). The drivers told me that they could pass the V8 cars on the straights, they could out-brake them and out turn them, but they would get eaten up coming OUT of the turn.
(BTW, I solved that problem with my '89. IT now has a Quaife Limited slip. I can come out of a slow corner at full tilt now, and THAT is a kick! )
Those cars in the Firehawk series were the famous (for SHO fanatics) Ninja Turtle team. Each of the four SHO's was named and painted up like one of the ninja cartoon characters. These cars still exist in private hands, three in Canada and one on the east coast (Leonardo). The turtle name came because of the smooth shape of the advanced (for its day) Taurus body. Plus one of the team members knew the guy that owned the Ninja Turtle franchise and got him to approve the name/artwork and help them design the cars look. The typical SHO suspension mods we see today on modifed SHO's were originally done on these cars.
have fun with your cars, and thanks again for the welcome.
Don Mallinson
SHO Club
Chalk up one for "car geeks" being generally nice people once you get past the hype!
Jaje, I agree, a 3300+ pound FWD car just isn't going to handle like a much ligher car. But then, to someone in a Lotus, your CRX probably feels like a barge. It is all in perception. I don't desire an ultralight autocrosser, I need cars I can use in the real world, carry four or five real adults in and STILL take out on the track. My '89 has been on Road Atlanta, Hallett, Summit Point, Blackhawk Farms, Mid-Ohio, and many more.
My car in mostly stock configuration beat the tar out of a LOT of much nicer wheels in the 1996 One Lap of America where we scored a trophy for third place in the Mid price sedan class out of almost 20 cars. We were the oldest, lowest HP, highest mile car in the class, but thanks to a superb driver (not me, but a semi-pro friend of mine) we beat a lot of cars including a 1996 Maxima driven by a hired gun pro driver! This proves that the SHO, when properly driven can hold its own.
My 89 now has Eibach springs, Koni adjustible shocks, and improved brakes. It can turn with a LOT of smaller sports cars. I run 245-45-16 race rubber on the track. BEst 1/4 mile of 15.00 (SOO close to the 14's!) at 96 mph (making good hp with a few bolt-on's, no power adder or chip).
Kazi, I agree, Ford IS an easy target...
98CoupeV6, one of your members that also owns a SHO posted the link on the V8SHO mailing list. A group of maybe 500 SHO fanatics that talk about a lot of stuff. There are another 800 or so on the V6 SHO mailing list, and we have over 1000 members of the national club.
As I said, compared to some cars, yes the SHO will feel heavy and less agile. But I think you fall into the same trap that a lot of magazine writers fall into. comparing apples to oranges. The SHO is what it is. A fairly large, fairly powerful four door sedan. IF I wanted a tool for all out racing I would buy a 911 or something smaller. I want my room and a good highway ride. A car I can take on 1000 mile day drives AND still get 10/10th from on a track or at the autocross. It is even fun at the drags, but will never beat a Mustang 0-60. But give me an older 5.0L in a 20 mph roll to 100 mph and I will SHOw him my taillights!
I wish the SHO group had as much or as cheap of mods as you Honda folk have available, but again, I and the rest of my SHO buddies knew what we were getting when we bought in.
And thanks for the heads-up on Beemer and Bimmer. I had heard that before, it just isn't information that rates a permanent spot in my brain, since I have to remember all this SHO stuff!
Maybe I will come back to talk about how you get such little motors to go so fast! (hint to myself, take out 1000 pounds, Put on power adders and wheelie bars and slicks. )
BTW, we do have some blown SHO's in the 13's, a couple are tickling with the 12's! at over 110 mph. Without slicks or wheelie bars. One stock SHO got to the high 13's by just cutting out about 1000 pounds of weight as an experiment.
And way back in 1990/1991, a team of SHO's was running the Firestone Firehawk series with Mustangs/Firebirds/Camaros. They even won a race (Atlanta). The drivers told me that they could pass the V8 cars on the straights, they could out-brake them and out turn them, but they would get eaten up coming OUT of the turn.
(BTW, I solved that problem with my '89. IT now has a Quaife Limited slip. I can come out of a slow corner at full tilt now, and THAT is a kick! )
Those cars in the Firehawk series were the famous (for SHO fanatics) Ninja Turtle team. Each of the four SHO's was named and painted up like one of the ninja cartoon characters. These cars still exist in private hands, three in Canada and one on the east coast (Leonardo). The turtle name came because of the smooth shape of the advanced (for its day) Taurus body. Plus one of the team members knew the guy that owned the Ninja Turtle franchise and got him to approve the name/artwork and help them design the cars look. The typical SHO suspension mods we see today on modifed SHO's were originally done on these cars.
have fun with your cars, and thanks again for the welcome.
Don Mallinson
SHO Club
03-13-2003 | 01:37 PM
#29
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Don,
Thanks for your compliment on the board. This board in particular is generally very kind to visitors like you because of it's unbiased nature. We have regular posters in News and Rumors who own Nissans or GMs. If you go dig up the 2005 Mustang thread, you'll see that the comments were 98% positive towards the Fastback version - we are not haters on this board. The only cars I hate are the the riced up cars (import or domestic no matter...if it has no taste, it's not for me) and the entire Toyota line because the management is full of scumbags who cheat at F1/CART racing and still can't win.
I do agree with you that the old SHO is a very good all around car. However, my first requirement in a car is interior design, and I have always hated Ford design. I dunno why, but interior design is more important to me than anything else (aside from powertrain, obviously), including exterior design. The Taurus has never done it for me. I guess it's one of those 'nice car, but not for me' kind of deals
I apologize in my previous post in December for implying that you are an idiot...I guess I just had a hard time believing that the SHO could hold a candle to a 3 series. But you did say the closest American car, which I agree with. Anyways, thanks for your comments on this board and I hope you'll pay us a return visit some time.
Regards,
Chris
Thanks for your compliment on the board. This board in particular is generally very kind to visitors like you because of it's unbiased nature. We have regular posters in News and Rumors who own Nissans or GMs. If you go dig up the 2005 Mustang thread, you'll see that the comments were 98% positive towards the Fastback version - we are not haters on this board. The only cars I hate are the the riced up cars (import or domestic no matter...if it has no taste, it's not for me) and the entire Toyota line because the management is full of scumbags who cheat at F1/CART racing and still can't win.
I do agree with you that the old SHO is a very good all around car. However, my first requirement in a car is interior design, and I have always hated Ford design. I dunno why, but interior design is more important to me than anything else (aside from powertrain, obviously), including exterior design. The Taurus has never done it for me. I guess it's one of those 'nice car, but not for me' kind of deals
I apologize in my previous post in December for implying that you are an idiot...I guess I just had a hard time believing that the SHO could hold a candle to a 3 series. But you did say the closest American car, which I agree with. Anyways, thanks for your comments on this board and I hope you'll pay us a return visit some time.Regards,
Chris
03-13-2003 | 02:25 PM
#30
Thread Starter
HC Racer H5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
From: KCK
Originally posted by SHOClub1
Chalk up one for "car geeks" being generally nice people once you get past the hype!
Jaje, I agree, a 3300+ pound FWD car just isn't going to handle like a much ligher car. But then, to someone in a Lotus, your CRX probably feels like a barge. It is all in perception. I don't desire an ultralight autocrosser, I need cars I can use in the real world, carry four or five real adults in and STILL take out on the track. My '89 has been on Road Atlanta, Hallett, Summit Point, Blackhawk Farms, Mid-Ohio, and many more.
Chalk up one for "car geeks" being generally nice people once you get past the hype!
Jaje, I agree, a 3300+ pound FWD car just isn't going to handle like a much ligher car. But then, to someone in a Lotus, your CRX probably feels like a barge. It is all in perception. I don't desire an ultralight autocrosser, I need cars I can use in the real world, carry four or five real adults in and STILL take out on the track. My '89 has been on Road Atlanta, Hallett, Summit Point, Blackhawk Farms, Mid-Ohio, and many more.