AcuraFanatic

Clarifcation time: The only engine parts that are largely shared are the Saab V-6 and Saturn's V-6. The 4's are unique.

Chassis was co-developed however.

fastball

I don't think a Chevy Cavalier and a Saab 9-3 have anything in common other than the fact that they both have 4 tires. Saabs are "ecopower", and even both motors were the same (which they are not even close), it would not go into a $16,000.00 car

Besides, Saab motors are still made in Sweden, and you can bet your sweet bippy that they won't be making motors for tin toys any time soon. Again, that is, if GM doesn't start f---ing up the company.

MrFatbooty

From C&D's article on the new 9-3:

All the cars we sampled on this early drive had base-level 175-hp, 2.0-liter turbos. This is the only engine that will be available when this 9-3 goes on sale here in October. Then, early in 2003, a higher-boost, 210-hp version of this engine will arrive in Arc and Vector models (read "luxury" and "sport"). Both engines are versions of GM's Ecotec all-aluminum, twin-cam four-cylinder.

What was that you were saying about Saab not using the Ecotec? Oh and try to spell Sweden correctly.

AcuraFanatic

I stand corrected. I know Saab as of this model year doesn't share 4-cylinder engines. I guess engine sharing is beginning, which is good (price) and bad (GM quality).

kazi

The Saab 2.0L turbo (L4) and the 2.2L (L61) in the Cav and Saturns are two different engines. Although the US Saab's 2.0L turbo might carry the ECOTEC name, it is not the same major design as the L61 2.2L that GM is hailing as their global corporate engine initially used in the 2000 model year Saturn L and Opel Vectra. Both engine did originated from the same L850 Lotus designed engine tho, but Saab reworked the engine extensively in a different way. If you look on the Saturn, Cavalier, Oldsmobile, Grand Am, all the engines carry the ECOTEC badge. The Saab does not. Saab does have the same L61 2.2L ECOTEC (used in the Cav, Saturn, Alero, etc....) in the new 9-3, but that is sold only in the European markets.

GM's European models has generic ECOTEC badges. The Opel Astra coupe has an iron casted 2.0L turbo also carried the ECOTEC name but is a totally different design from the aluminum casted real 2.2L ECOTEC. Same with the 2.5L V6 in the Vectra and the new 3.2L V6 (same one used in the CTS), both are totally different engines from the corporate 2.2L inline-4s and has a generic ECOTEC badging, but has very little major design relationship with the global L61 2.2L real ECOTEC.

The L61 2.2L ECOTEC is probably the most refine and flexible inline-4 GM has ever created. And to give credit where due, the 2.2L ECOTEC is a Lotus designed motor. The motor is designed from a 1.8-2.4 displacement, but only the 2.2L has been used for production. Contrary to to the 'TEC' in its name sounding like VTEC, the ECOTEC does not have any form of variable valve timing. Therefor it is not very rev-able. This doesn't mean that its applications are not potent. GM has a competent S2000 competitor overseas by the name of the Opel Speedster that uses this 2.2L (and only 147hp) and runs 0-100km/h in the low 6 seconds. And the very stylish Pontiac Solstice concept also carries the L61 2.2L ECOTEC in a supercharged variant with 240hp!

GM's ECOTEC product webpage:
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...otec/index.htm

GM's 2003 Engine Specs: (PDF file)
http://media.gm.com/division/2003_pr...ar_Engines.pdf

Just for the record, the Saturn L my wife drives has the ECOTEC motor and I have been doing some investigating on this motor since we took delivery on it. It is a rather refine engine, especially for being GM. It's just all the little quality control issues and a major design problem with the suspension that makes me .

AcuraFanatic

The Opel Speedster also weighs just over 2000 pounds. It could be any engine producing similar power and it'll still move quickly, given the power to weight ratio.

But point taken.

MrFatbooty

Damn, you pretty much schooled my ass.

But I'll get you on a little point. The Opel Speedster is really a reskinned Lotus Elise with a GM powertrain instead of the Rover crap that comes in the Lotus.

MrFatbooty

OK so back to the topic, the Grand Prix sucks and has an ugly interior.

kazi

Yes they have. Notice next year there will be no more hatchback Saabs lineup. What use to be the identity that set Saab apart is now gone. Already stated, the Saab 9-3 is one of the first models to use the Epsilon platform that is currently shared with the Opel Vectra. Soon to be added to this platform is the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac Grand Am for 2004. 2005 we will see a Saturn midsize variant replacing the Saturn L and a new Buick model that fits where the Skylark use to be. Currently the Saab 9-5, introduced in 1999 model year, shares the old Opel Vectra platform, which is also shared with the Saturn L midsize. The 3.0L V6 is also a GM motor used in the Cetera and Saturn L. The next 9-5 will use a longer version of Epsilon platform.


This isn't saying its all of a bad thing. Before the 9-5, from what I heard, the Saab 9000 were not what you call a long-term reliable car. But Saab is on the brink of losing its identity and niche.

JaydeeEmzOwnzYo

i dunno but, whoever thinks any Pontiac is nice.... looking etc.... i cant see how they can also like Hondas. Pontiacs are FUGLY. end of storyh: