Daniel

Here's some better images.

iNteGraz92

:bowdown: to HAN hookups for big official honda pics

Ochdx

Well, the 330 is anything but a luxury car, and the diesel option I believe is only offered in Europe - but Europe is a whole different world compared to the USA.

Ochdx

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it, but I predict the diesel equipped MBs will sell poorly in the US, and they are going to be on the bottom of the lineup compared to gasoline engines. Again, this is my opinion based on my previous experience with diesels - they are just nowhere near as smooth as most gasoline engines.

Dude, thats Europe. Cars in Europe are designed towards economy, not engine performance. Over there you can get a BMW 7 series, fully loaded, yet equipped with a 2.0 diesel engine, and it will get its ass kicked by a geo metro.

jaje

just like how the Euro m3 used to get the more powerful engines and the US versions got didn't...Also how an Accord Type R and Civic Type R were sold over there but not here

i don't jive with the Euro cars are only built for economy and not engine performance

IMO Europeans just get more options than we do

AcuraFanatic

You really do become more ignorant every day. Modern day automotive diesels aren't the clattering, smog producing diesels of yesterday.

MtViewGuy88

I think most Europeans will strongly disagree with you. The Mercedes-Benz and BMW models powered by turbodiesel engines have reviewers strongly laud the quiet operation, strong performance, no visible exhaust smoke (thanks to particulate filters), and very good fuel economy. That's why the fastest-selling versions of the BMW E90 3-Series in Europe are the 320d and 330d turbodiesel models. In the 45 states in the USA where the M-B E320CDI is legal, drivers love the car because of its very modern turbodiesel engine.

Actually, the smallest diesel engine you can get on the 7-Series is the 3-liter I-6 turbodiesel, which has actually just as much maximum torque as the 4.8-liter gasoline engine! The 7-Series in Europe also includes a more powerful 745d with an engine rated at 329 ps and a incredibly high torque peak. The 745d is probably faster than the 750i and could probably challenge the 760i V-12 sedan in mid-range acceleration.

The fact that today's diesel engines no longer have the performance deficits compared to equivalent gasoline engines, not to mention the lack of diesel clatter and the elimination of visible exhaust smoke are good reasons why not only Mercedes-Benz is pushing forward selling turbodiesel cars here in the USA, but also Honda is building its V-6 turbodiesel and (very likely) BMW will bring their turbodiesels to the USA market.

jaje

i agree that diesel engines are much better than their lower technology ancestors but they still don't make the power and performance a gasoline engine does

reason being is standard equipment on diesels today are turbochargers giving them a huge advantage of forced induction when compared to n/a gasoline engines

mayonaise

people are afraid of what they do not understand, and aren't eager to give things a second chance. americans are especially adverse to accepting new technologies and ideas when they're already nicely settled into their outdated ruts. a lot of good ideas fail to catch on in this country, even if it could benefit us dramatically.

what is your previous experience with diesels? trucks, buses and 20 year old diesel powered cars? modern diesel engines combined with modern refining techniques are producing diesel-burning engines that run cleaner, smoother, more efficiently, and with more power AND torque than thier gasoline counterparts. there's a pretty good reason why every major european manufacturer offers a good lineup of diesel engines, and they're extremely popular. even honda, champion of environmental-friendliness and smooth/reliable/efficient engines, has developed one. i'm sure mtviewguy can give much more detailed information..

that's an interesting assertion. care to provide some specs to support that claim?

Schneegz

It's humorous reading the debates that go on concerning Diesel engines on this and other boards. There is always one camp that dispises Diesels, and one camp that practically worships them, holding them as the Holy Grail of automotive technology that sophisticated Europeans have discovered, and, if only ignorant Americans would get on board, the world would be a better place.

I'm an American living in Europe. Bamberg, Germany, to be exact. I've driven a BMW 5-series Diesel. I rented it last year when I first moved here. It was brand new, with only a few miles on the odometer. I also drive among dozens, if not hundreds, of European Diesel engine cars every day, some new, some old.

Guess what?
1. The new ones still rattle.
2. The new ones still smoke.
3. The new ones still stink.

All these annoyances have been greatly reduced compared with Diesels of yesteryear. For example, I couldn't hear the BMW's engine when I drove it with the windows up. I could only hear it with the windows rolled down. I don't mind the Diesel rattle, but others do, and that BMW Diesel did NOT have the melifluous sound of a gasoline BMW I-6, not by a LONG shot. Other than that, it was smooth, comfortable, and sporty enough to be enjoyable to drive.

Driving behind many a brand new Audi, BMW, VW and Mercedes Diesel I've noticed that, when they start from a stop sign or stop light, and when they downshift on a slow corner, or going uphill, they belch out a puff of black smoke. Again, a huge improvement over the Diesels of the past, but still not as clean as a modern gasoline engine. This should come as no surprise.

Another issue I noticed driving behind European Diesels. They still stink. Even inside my car (now a Euro-spec, 1999 gasoline Ford Mondeo) with the windows rolled up, I can still detect the unmistakeable scent of Diesel fumes eminating from the tail pipes of even the newest European wunderDiesels.

Also, keep in mind that European governments keep Diesel prices artificially lower than gasoline prices by taxing gasoline at much higher percentages than Diesel, which makes Diesel cars more popular here. US Federal and State governments don't do that, so Diesel prices in the US are typically higher than gasoline prices due to supply and demand issues.

Will Mercedes' Bluetec eliminate the smoke and the smell? I don't know, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Will Diesels sell in the US? I think they will. I'd buy one. I'd love it if my Toyota 4Runner back home had a modern TurboDiesel.

And that's where manufacturers should start reintroducing Diesels, in bigger vehicles like SUVs. I think the people who drive SUVs, pickups and even minivans would be more receptive to a Diesel engine than, say, someone shopping for a compact sedan, or a luxury sedan.