which motor should i get, i plan on boosting which ever.
05-11-2009, 02:56 PM
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which motor should i get, i plan on boosting which ever.
as the title of the thread says, i am looking into getting a new motor for my car. i am thinking about either just getting another LS or getting a b20. now i also want to boost. and i have heard mixed things on boosting a b20. some say you can some say you cant. whats yalls opinion. keep in mind this is my daily so im not looking for mad power, i just want some kick and want it to be reliable. let me know yalls opinions!
05-11-2009, 06:07 PM
#2
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Take a gander at our Frequently Asked Questions section, and you'll find a lot of good pointers and answers to any potential questions you might have.
before someone says "its all in the tune", keep in mind that no matter what you do tuning wise, there are going to be other factors that are going to affect longterm durability and reliability.
common saying is:
Cheap / Fast / Reliable - Pick two.
Dont go by "i'm going to boost 7 psi". Pick a power goal, and go from there. 7 psi on a small turbo is not the same as 7 psi on a big turbo, so choose a power goal. For a non vtec powerplant, 200-250whp is good goal. anything above that and you're going to have to really dig deeper into your pockets (forged internals/head work/etc).
I would personally go with the LS powerplant, the sleeve design in the B20 is more prone to cracking than the B18B in boosted situations. I can imagine you're telling yourself "Nah, I wont boost more than 7-8psi, so my motor will be safe". Thats never the case, trust me, I was one of those people.
before someone says "its all in the tune", keep in mind that no matter what you do tuning wise, there are going to be other factors that are going to affect longterm durability and reliability.
common saying is:
Cheap / Fast / Reliable - Pick two.
Dont go by "i'm going to boost 7 psi". Pick a power goal, and go from there. 7 psi on a small turbo is not the same as 7 psi on a big turbo, so choose a power goal. For a non vtec powerplant, 200-250whp is good goal. anything above that and you're going to have to really dig deeper into your pockets (forged internals/head work/etc).
I would personally go with the LS powerplant, the sleeve design in the B20 is more prone to cracking than the B18B in boosted situations. I can imagine you're telling yourself "Nah, I wont boost more than 7-8psi, so my motor will be safe". Thats never the case, trust me, I was one of those people.
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Last edited by Spec R; 05-11-2009 at 06:14 PM.
05-11-2009, 08:56 PM
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First you have to decide how much money you want to spend. A vtec engine is going to be the best bang for the buck, but can always cost up to twice as much over the non-vtec engine.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, the head, block, crank, rods, etc, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, the head, block, crank, rods, etc, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
Last edited by pslsnakes; 05-11-2009 at 08:58 PM.
05-11-2009, 09:04 PM
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First you have to decide how much money you want to spend. A vtec engine is going to be the best bang for the buck, but can always cost up to twice as much over the non-vtec engine.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, the head, block, crank, rods, etc, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, the head, block, crank, rods, etc, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
05-11-2009, 09:12 PM
#6
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yeah i read that about the b20. i mean look, here is my thing. i am not wanting to make crazy power. the most i want out of this new engine for now is 220, none more. this is my dd. i know some people have dd'ed safely many cars with higher horses that are boosted. but thats not something i want to do. i dont need that much power for dail. if i can boost a stock b18 or b20 and get good amount of power out of it safely, thats all i want.
http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a.html
220whp is a realistic and attainable goal. a basic turbo kit with good exhaust/downpipe will easily get you 220whp. if you do it right, you can spend less than 2000 bucks - still way less than a CAM'd/headwork/etc NA build.
First you have to decide how much money you want to spend. A vtec engine is going to be the best bang for the buck, but can always cost up to twice as much over the non-vtec engine.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
You have to think about a power goal you want, and build from there. The LS can make power, but it has to be build to make and safely handle some real power. You can only go so far before you need piston and rods, or need to resleeve the block, or the head no longer flows efficiently (as if it ever did). That's why say a B16A or a B18C makes more power lb for lb than a non-vtec. A stock B18C1 is going to handle as much power as a 'built' LS. The LS isn't very balanced, the head doesn't flow as well, etc etc...
And Spec, it is in the tune :reechy:
Also, the B20 is the SAME thing as an B18A/B. Same block, same sleeve casting and design, everything is the same, except the B20 has a slightly larger bore. In fact, everything is the same, except the intake manifold, and pistons.
come on snake i kno you're just pulling my chain on the tune issue. a great tuner understands there are factors that are out of his control. if he/she says otherwise, i would take my car somewhere else. i've seen some people think they can magically make power out of a car and have it blow up on them because they think its ONLY in the tune. yeah its a big chunk of the picture but the rest of the setup has to be healthy as well and in my opinion the only real way of know if its healthy is if it has invidual cylinder monitoring. unless it does, I wouldnt put all the eggs in the tuning basket. i've seen people put blind faith into individual wideband 02 sensors set up to read all 4 cylinders and it makes me cringe.
yeah in an awesome world all the injectors and cylinders will get the exact same amount of fuel and air and have the same compression and all. but often times, these 15-20 year old engines have some variance. and thats when they're healthy. throw in a bad injector, or a cylinder that has good compression readings but a bad leakdown reading...
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Last edited by Spec R; 05-11-2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: clean up
05-11-2009, 10:33 PM
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200whp is very doable. I don't see that being a problem at all. If I were you, I'd looking into getting a GReddy turbo kit or the like. It will be easier than you trying to piece together a kit, and cheaper than buying a high-dollar, big number kit like Full-Race, Synapse, etc.. For the love of got though, stay AWAY from the cheap generic eBay kits. The only thing even worth the time on those kits is the intercooler piping and oil lines.
Spec, yea I'm just yanking your chain. I quickly simmed through the link. It's late, and that's just too much for me to read right now lol.
People (mostly uneducated about motors and building motors) are always saying "The B20 has the weakest sleeves of all the B-series." That is not true. People use the B20 because it's simply a 2.0L. They throw a shit load of boost at it, and then crack a sleeve. They portray it as a "sleeved 1.8L" since it's a 2.0L motor. It's the exact same construction as any of the B18 non-vtecs, again, just with a slightly bigger bore.
Since I'm at my buddy's shop about 4 day a week, I've seen a lot of builds, I've helped with some, and have even did some of my own tuning on cars. I know that the tune isn't every thing. The tune can be great, but the motor/setup still needs to act with it. We tuned a RHD EG with a turbo LS in it, the guy came 300 miles from home to have it tuned by Tom only.. This car was built, low compression, big cams, a Precision SC67 turbo, etc. I think it made some where around 460whp. The same guy came back later that night, and the car was blowing oil from every where, and smoking up a storm. It ended up being the head gasket. The damn thing was 2 week old, and the car didn't see boost until it was tuned.
I know I'm rambling on and on, but I'm just saying. Everything can be new, freshly built, right-in-spec, but there is still variables of how it can go wrong.
And in an awesome world, we'd have lots or torque and won't spin up to 90+ mph, but noooo... lol
Spec, yea I'm just yanking your chain. I quickly simmed through the link. It's late, and that's just too much for me to read right now lol.
People (mostly uneducated about motors and building motors) are always saying "The B20 has the weakest sleeves of all the B-series." That is not true. People use the B20 because it's simply a 2.0L. They throw a shit load of boost at it, and then crack a sleeve. They portray it as a "sleeved 1.8L" since it's a 2.0L motor. It's the exact same construction as any of the B18 non-vtecs, again, just with a slightly bigger bore.
Since I'm at my buddy's shop about 4 day a week, I've seen a lot of builds, I've helped with some, and have even did some of my own tuning on cars. I know that the tune isn't every thing. The tune can be great, but the motor/setup still needs to act with it. We tuned a RHD EG with a turbo LS in it, the guy came 300 miles from home to have it tuned by Tom only.. This car was built, low compression, big cams, a Precision SC67 turbo, etc. I think it made some where around 460whp. The same guy came back later that night, and the car was blowing oil from every where, and smoking up a storm. It ended up being the head gasket. The damn thing was 2 week old, and the car didn't see boost until it was tuned.
I know I'm rambling on and on, but I'm just saying. Everything can be new, freshly built, right-in-spec, but there is still variables of how it can go wrong.
And in an awesome world, we'd have lots or torque and won't spin up to 90+ mph, but noooo... lol