Hi, I'm new and would like some general info..
06-13-2006 | 03:46 PM
#31
scooted
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
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Originally Posted by TheOtherDave™
Yes. The load won't be a problem at all, assuming the transmission shifts smoothly and hasn't been abused at this point.
However, if you go to the Integra FAQ, you will notice that the GSR and Integra Type R (aka ITR) transmissions have tighter gear ratios with a numerically higher final drive. The higher final drive ratio will exploit the strong mid-range and top end power of the motor and produce faster acceleration times.
If you go ahead with an LS-VTEC motor, you will get the most benefit out of a GSR or ITR transmission. And yes, even if you decide to turbocharge your LS-VTEC, the GSR / ITR trans is still a worthwhile upgrade.
However, if you go to the Integra FAQ, you will notice that the GSR and Integra Type R (aka ITR) transmissions have tighter gear ratios with a numerically higher final drive. The higher final drive ratio will exploit the strong mid-range and top end power of the motor and produce faster acceleration times.
If you go ahead with an LS-VTEC motor, you will get the most benefit out of a GSR or ITR transmission. And yes, even if you decide to turbocharge your LS-VTEC, the GSR / ITR trans is still a worthwhile upgrade.
06-13-2006 | 03:52 PM
#32
Apathy Kills
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 60,714
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From: The Left Lane
Originally Posted by Topend
Listen to TheOtherDave. This person has many posts.
What matters is experience, honest research and continual learning.
h:Anyone can put those 3 factors together.
I'm no expert...but from wrenching on my previous cars and learning from others what solutions actually work, I do what I can to fill in the gaps. :shrug:
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06-14-2006 | 04:42 AM
#33
I missed Sean
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,285
Likes: 1
From: Fairfield/Bridgeport CT
Originally Posted by TheOtherDave™
Thank you kindly, but in all honesty, it's not the number of posts that matters.
What matters is experience, honest research and continual learning.h:
Anyone can put those 3 factors together.
I'm no expert...but from wrenching on my previous cars and learning from others what solutions actually work, I do what I can to fill in the gaps. :shrug:
What matters is experience, honest research and continual learning.
h:Anyone can put those 3 factors together.
I'm no expert...but from wrenching on my previous cars and learning from others what solutions actually work, I do what I can to fill in the gaps. :shrug:
i still say you focus on suspension first
06-14-2006 | 07:21 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 104
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well, I don't really intend on taking to many sharp turns, or turns at high speeds at the moment, so I'd rather focus on the motor first. Is there any way to just exploit whatever benifits the b18 motor may have without having to do an ls conversion?
06-14-2006 | 12:46 PM
#35
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 46
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by TheOtherDave™
Alright, it's time to debunk the BS and clear up the fine points...
1) SEARCH.
For the love of GOD, use our search engine.. and skim through the Integra FAQ for the basics. Turbocharging, LS-VTEC conversions, suspension options.. all of these have been covered before.
2) LS-VTEC and its mortal weakness:
The build-up from G2IC.com did not address the bottom end. IMO, that weakness must be addressed for the motor to be considered reliable to any degree.
The specific weak points on an LS-VTEC motor are the rod bolts and to a lesser extent, the rods themselves. An affordable solution for an N/A motor is to have your LS rods shot-peened, then reinstall them with ARP hardware in the stock diameter and thread pitch. That will give you sufficient bottom-end strength to run to 7800 rpm with a little safety margin on top. Being conservative, I would not go beyond 8K, simply because I prioritize durablity.
3) Re: LS-VTEC + Turbocharging.
Considering that a LS-VTEC motor will belch out about 190 hp with plenty of torque, that should be plenty for the $2500 or so it will cost.
(I'm assuming you'll be paying for shop time to dissassemble and reassemble the motor.) In fact, if CA smog wasn't such a bitch, I would be perfectly happy with a naturally aspirated LS-VTEC and an iTR transmssion.
But...if you're serious about turbocharging an LS-VTEC, I would skip the shotpeened LS rods and go directly to a set of aftermarket forged pistons and rods. Shoot for a compression ratio of about 9.8:1 unless you can get 93 octane or higher on a daily basis. The reason for upgrading to aftermarket rods & pistons is two fold..
a) The forged pistons will be more resistant to temporary bouts of detonation. (detonation should still be avoided, obviously)
b) The forged rods will be stronger still than the shotpeened LS rods and will further increase your "safety margin" in high-rpm use. Again, the ARP rod bolts are crucial for reliability.
And yes, so long as B18B1 (or A1, depending on which engine you have) rods are ordered, they will fit the stock crank.
Next... :run:
1) SEARCH.
For the love of GOD, use our search engine.. and skim through the Integra FAQ for the basics. Turbocharging, LS-VTEC conversions, suspension options.. all of these have been covered before.
2) LS-VTEC and its mortal weakness:
The build-up from G2IC.com did not address the bottom end. IMO, that weakness must be addressed for the motor to be considered reliable to any degree.
The specific weak points on an LS-VTEC motor are the rod bolts and to a lesser extent, the rods themselves. An affordable solution for an N/A motor is to have your LS rods shot-peened, then reinstall them with ARP hardware in the stock diameter and thread pitch. That will give you sufficient bottom-end strength to run to 7800 rpm with a little safety margin on top. Being conservative, I would not go beyond 8K, simply because I prioritize durablity.
3) Re: LS-VTEC + Turbocharging.
Considering that a LS-VTEC motor will belch out about 190 hp with plenty of torque, that should be plenty for the $2500 or so it will cost.
(I'm assuming you'll be paying for shop time to dissassemble and reassemble the motor.) In fact, if CA smog wasn't such a bitch, I would be perfectly happy with a naturally aspirated LS-VTEC and an iTR transmssion.
But...if you're serious about turbocharging an LS-VTEC, I would skip the shotpeened LS rods and go directly to a set of aftermarket forged pistons and rods. Shoot for a compression ratio of about 9.8:1 unless you can get 93 octane or higher on a daily basis. The reason for upgrading to aftermarket rods & pistons is two fold..
a) The forged pistons will be more resistant to temporary bouts of detonation. (detonation should still be avoided, obviously)
b) The forged rods will be stronger still than the shotpeened LS rods and will further increase your "safety margin" in high-rpm use. Again, the ARP rod bolts are crucial for reliability.
And yes, so long as B18B1 (or A1, depending on which engine you have) rods are ordered, they will fit the stock crank.
Next... :run:
Thanks for help Dave.........but I will be doing all my own building. So as far as that, on parts you'd recommend (forged rods, pistions and some ARP bolts((maybe studs?))) how much you think it'd cost on a rough estimate? Also I keep forgetting the name of that book you kept recommending me! If you did a LS/VTEC setup and wanted a bunch of power not really caring so much about reliability would you go with a set of good cams? Again I appreciate all the help!
06-14-2006 | 01:16 PM
#36
Apathy Kills
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: The Left Lane
Originally Posted by borass07
Thanks for help Dave.........but I will be doing all my own building. So as far as that, on parts you'd recommend (forged rods, pistions and some ARP bolts((maybe studs?))) how much you think it'd cost on a rough estimate? Also I keep forgetting the name of that book you kept recommending me! If you did a LS/VTEC setup and wanted a bunch of power not really caring so much about reliability would you go with a set of good cams? Again I appreciate all the help!
Get the part numbers from ARP and comparison shop via Froogle.
And the book was Mike Kojima's Honda/Acura Engine Performance.
(ISBN: 1-55788-384-X) For the money, it's the best guide for learning your options. It's too old to cover the K-series motors, but it does an excelltent job of the D, H and most importantly B-series mills.
Cam-wise, I'd take a look at Crower. Their 404 cam for the B18C1 is nothing if not agressive. :run: It would require their springs and retainers, but with the right tune I doubt you would be wanting for power.
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06-14-2006 | 01:24 PM
#37
I missed Sean
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,285
Likes: 1
From: Fairfield/Bridgeport CT
Originally Posted by borass07
Thanks for help Dave.........but I will be doing all my own building. So as far as that, on parts you'd recommend (forged rods, pistions and some ARP bolts((maybe studs?))) how much you think it'd cost on a rough estimate? Also I keep forgetting the name of that book you kept recommending me! If you did a LS/VTEC setup and wanted a bunch of power not really caring so much about reliability would you go with a set of good cams? Again I appreciate all the help!
the parts wont kill you, it's the install prices and downtime. if you don't know what you are doing you are doing it will be near impossible to do it yourself without someone who knows how to do it there with you.
as far as the cams go for an LS/vtec setup, you won't be able to make any power off of them. most cams increase the powerband to reach higher in the RPM range. with your stock rotating assembly you at looking at a blown motor the first time you take it past 8k. you may get lucky, but it has nearly a 99% chance of happening within a timeframe most people would think is way too short-lived
06-15-2006 | 11:28 AM
#38
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by sherwood
you'll want to get a helms manual, until you get heavy into stuff you can get them on honda hookup
the parts wont kill you, it's the install prices and downtime. if you don't know what you are doing you are doing it will be near impossible to do it yourself without someone who knows how to do it there with you.
as far as the cams go for an LS/vtec setup, you won't be able to make any power off of them. most cams increase the powerband to reach higher in the RPM range. with your stock rotating assembly you at looking at a blown motor the first time you take it past 8k. you may get lucky, but it has nearly a 99% chance of happening within a timeframe most people would think is way too short-lived
the parts wont kill you, it's the install prices and downtime. if you don't know what you are doing you are doing it will be near impossible to do it yourself without someone who knows how to do it there with you.
as far as the cams go for an LS/vtec setup, you won't be able to make any power off of them. most cams increase the powerband to reach higher in the RPM range. with your stock rotating assembly you at looking at a blown motor the first time you take it past 8k. you may get lucky, but it has nearly a 99% chance of happening within a timeframe most people would think is way too short-lived
Alright cool, thanks Other Dave and Sherwood.
Just want to add one with and see if you think cams will be a good choice. I do plan on building the bottem end if need be. I mean money isnt to bad of an issue but Im not going to go blow 10-15k or some crazy amount. But if I had the built bottem end would cams and gears help my power? or would it still stick to the high RPM power?
Actually one last thing. which would be better(maybe more of an opinion but theres gotta be fact to it). Complete LS with fully built block and head - no VTEC (expecting to go turbo), or fully built LS bottom end and fully built VTEC B18C head (expecting to go turbo as well) Both setups including block re-inforcement.
Thanks for the help everyone!