blkdragteg63

i think im going to buy my friends new in line fuel pump for now, because i think mines about to go out soon. I eventually wanna get rid of the fmu and the in line. Will it run smoother with larger injectors and the afc? I have a missing link instead of the check valves. If i got a set of rc injectors would i still need to get the reistor box and the obd1 clips? I think my timing is retarded back a little bit just to be safe. As of right now i ordered the walbro 255 hp in tank fuel pump and a holley fuel pressure regulator, im just saving up for the injectors and the afc.. The question i had about the stanalones was not is it all worth it, but is the hondata better or the aem ems? which one was worth getting. I know for the hondata i have to change over to the obd1 p72 and the obd2 to obd1 harness then i can plug the hondata up to it. I heard that the aem ems is obd2 compatable so i wouldnt have to change out my computer to obd1...... thanks a lot man, you are helping me out a lot. Im kinda new to the whole turbo thing.

blkdragteg63

also is there any signs of a fuel pump going bad? the reason i think mine might be going out is that yesterday it was making some really really loud wining noises, i could even hear it over the fan and it sounded like it was sputuring a bit too. I didnt hear the noise today, but it did it 3 different times yesterday. A few people told me that it could be in the prime of going bad. Im not really sure if it is or not but i have a new in line avaliable from a friend. I just dont want it to go out on me and mess something up. one of my friends said he blew up one of his motors because the fuel pump went bad and he didnt know it.

inspyral

With larger injectors and an AFC, you won't be over-pressurizing your fuel system, and it will considerably a bit better than an FMU setup. For the best results, you would need to tune it on a dyno. If you run 450cc injectors, you don't need check valves or a missing link becasue you trim the MAP signal with the AFC. You start off by setting your fuel trim to -40% across the board until you can get it tuned. This negative value fuel enrichment(in reality it would be fuel trim, since you're cutting the MAP signal), you're lowering the MAP sensor signal enough to allow you to boost without using any MAP limiting devices(voltage clamp, check valve, missing link). As long as you stay below 10-12lbs of boost, you won't throw a MAP code. This aaplies to 440-450cc injectors. If you go with smaller injectors, your fuel trim will be less, so it may not allow you to run the AFC "hack" in this fashion. The reason I keep mentioning DSM 450cc injectors is because they're relatively cheap, and easy to come by since DSM owners usually upgrde theyr injectors and have no use for they stocks. If you get RC injectors, even if you get the saturated ones, you'll still need to convert to OBD-I injector clips, and the RC ones are solder-in type. There are some new direct replacemtn injector adaptors that were just developed, and they simply plug into your stock injector clips and adapt them to OBD-I. A guy named Viren(b18bturbo) on Honda-Tech sells them for $10 a piece, I believe. If you get peak and hold injectors(like the DSMs), which are usually cheaper than saturated, then you'll need the resistor box. Hondata and EMS both basically have the same features, so which one is "better" would be up to you. Hondata is pretty well known to tuners, and it wouldn't be hard for you to find a good tuner. EMS is a newer system, and while there are good tuners out there, it can be difficult to even get your car started unless you can find a decent basemap. EMS replaces your OEM ECM completely and plugs directly into your harness. Both Hondata and EMS cost about the same if you figure EMS costs about $1200, and an S200 system with all the bells and whistles, along with an OBD-I ECM and adapter harness would also cost about that much. For simplicity, the EMS would probably be better, since you don't need to have an interface box like the Hondata units. EMS also comes with all the features like 3-step rev limiter, datalogging, full throttle shift, auto-tune, etc already included, whereas with Hondata they're offered as modular "upgrades" which is what drives up the initial cost of the S200 w/ boost system($495 for S200 w/boost and no extra features) to about the same amount as the EMS. You also don't need a ROM burner or emulator to make changes to the EMS, so there's another advantage. If you're willing to take the time to leanr how to use the EMS, it's a great system, but some people don't have the greatest of luck with it right off the bat, get discouraged, and switch to Hondata.

As for your pump being noisy, it has been my experience that inline pumps are usually pretty noisy. Mine was mounted on the firewall when I was running an FMU setup, and that thing would whine like nothing else. I got used to it, and I actually grew to like it, somewhat. Now, if your pump is making noises that it wasn't making before, then I would be concerned.

blkdragteg63

yea... every time i crank up the car i hear the wine of the fuel pump, but it was making some loud noises that i could hear over the fan while i was outside the car. i heard that using the afc with bigger injectors, i cant wire up the afc regular and i would need to wire it up as afc hack. Im not really sure the difference. do you know how to wire up the afc hack? on the dsm injectors do they work just as well as any other rc one? I would need a resistor box to use the dsm ones and the obd1 clips? What does the reistor box do and is it hard to hook up? where would i get them from? those clips that viren(b18bturbo) is selling would those go straight onto my clips and plug into the dsm ones or would i need to do more to them? If i go with bigger injectors, afc, and in tank fuel pump can i still leave the missing link on or is it better to remove it? Is this safer with this vs. using the in line fuel pump with the fmu?

inspyral

The "hack" isn't really a hack. You wire the AFC exactly as it says in the manual. You simply use it to trim the MAP signal to the ECM and thus trimming the injector pulse, which lets you run the 450s. Since you're trimming the MAP signal by about 40%, that means when the MAP sensor is reading 0 vacuum, you can add about 40% more signal to that reading and you still won't throw a MAP sensor code. The 40% equates to about 10-12lbs of boost. You don't need to run any sort of MAP limiting device such as a missing link, and it's better not to. The DSMs work fine, and you can get them cleaned and still spend a lot less than you would on RCs. Yes, you would need a resistor box or inline resistors to run any peak and hold injectors in your car. A resistor box isn't hard to wire up, and instructions can be found here: http://www.hondata.com/techinjector.html
You can find them on eBay or you can get them from a guy named Sonny who puts together kits consisting of resistor boxes and injector clips here: http://www.muller.net/sonny/resistorbox/
The injector adapters that Viren sells plug right into your stock harness and then plug right into the DSM injectors without any wiring. They cost $10 a piece. This is what they look like:

You can reach Viren on H-T, or you can email him at Info@vsracingparts.com
The AFC and 450 setup is a lot better than an FMU setup if you're going to run up to 10-12lbs of boost. Iff you want to go beyond that, then you should really be looking into a standalone.

blkdragteg63

if im only gonna stay at 8 lbs would it be better to just keep what i got or will it be good to change it out with the afc and the 450 injectors? So when they call it the afc hack, its really just wired up just like you would normally hook it up its just how you use it difference to trim the fuel level? The injectors clips that sonny sells they have to be wired up right? i like the ones you showed me a pic of, i wanna be able to take them out without cuttin anything up... For now i only plan on running like 8 lbs because i dont wanna push my motor since the bottom end is still stock..I just want to upgrade some of the stuff on my car now so it will run smoother. The thing with having injector failure kinda scares me, thats why im thinking of gettin rid of the whole fmu, and i dont really want to have 2 fuel pumps.

inspyral

Yes, an AFC and 450s will run better, when tuned, than an FMU setup. Yes, the AFC is wired normally. Yes, Sonny's clips need to be wired in.

blkdragteg63

I looked on a few other forums and they are saying that the fmu will pretty much not last too long and kill my stock injectors? Dont most people start out with fmu's then go to better setups? I also saw that a few people were talking about running the 450cc dsm's, afc and a btm.. Would i really need the btm?

inspyral

FMUs run fine at lower boost levels. At higher boost levels, they create extremely high fuel pressures at the rail, as I've already said. It's this high pressure that eventually kills injectors. For the price of an AFC and a BTM, you could go with a Hondata S100 or S200 with boost. While a lot of people run 450s with just an AFC, it only allows you to tune the fuel map. You would need to be able to tune the ignition map in order to have a completely tuned setup. Too little fuel can kill a boosted setup, but too much timing can have the same effects. If you already have an AFC, then I would probably just get the 450s and not worry about a BTM if you're running moderate boost. If you want to run more boost, and want to be able to tune your ignition maps in addition to the fuel maps, then look into Hondata.

blkdragteg63

im just wondering how safe it would be to run 8 psi with the fmu. If i go ahead and go hondata then im probally going to go for 10 psi.