Hello to all I have a 90 accord coupe ex 2.2 automatic. I have a serious issue with something on the car draining power from somewhere. I had my battery die rather quickly so I got a new one and had the car diagnosed with a new alternator, battery, starter, and system check machine. Everything was fine on the test except the (DRAIN) section on the test it clearly showed that something was making a serious drain on the system. A mechanic told me it was probably a ground from a positive cable somewhere on the car and that he would not help me or work on the car. He said it could be too many things and to sell the f... car.... I don't like that negative attitude surely someone one this forum has had a similar problem and can help me. The query is what/where and how would a drain in the electrical flow going to the battery happen? Again 2 people looked at the problem and results from test and concluded that it was probably a faulty ground (can't remember if they said faulty positive or negative ground). So I am perplexed here what could cause this and where to start looking at the positive or negative cables and which ones. Please advise me to help narrow down the hunt/search thanks.
Dave

 

Dave, There could be a thousand different things to look at. Generally, when I'm troubleshooting a problem, I assume that something simple failed then I try to figure out as many symptoms as I can and what they all have in common. I'm assuming that the car is loosing power while it's sitting, i.e., "it ran last night and it's dead this morining". I would start by looking at things that shouldn't be on when the car is off. Make sure the dome light turns off with all the doors closed, make sure the truck light is off with the lid closed (you'll have to lay the rear seat down for that). If you have an aftermarket radio, make sure it turns off when you turn the car off. If you have aftermarket fog lights they should turn off too.
Normally there are only a few items that remain "hot" when the ignition is off. The clock continues to run (however the display is off), one or two leads for the radio for presets for the radio, lights, horn and brake lights. I'm sure there are more. Make sure these items are off. I once had a problem with that stupid rubber bumper on the brake pedal that makes contact with the brake light switch. Once that goes away the nipple on the switch sticks into the bumper hole and that cause the brake lights to stay on all the time. That's 2 amps right there. I've even had trouble with the "window down" button on the drive's door getting suck. Just make sure everything is as 'off' as it should be. Oh, here's a good one. A co-worker had a second-hand car that had a aftermarket alarm installed that he didn't know was there. The previous owner had just removed the speaker. If the car sat unused for more than few day the battery would be dead because the alarm system was always triggered but had no output.
So. If all this doesn't lead you anywhere the next thing I would try is to hook up an amp meter between the positive battery terminal and the positive cable (with the car off). This will show the total drain of all parts using battery voltage. Then I would start pulling fuses (driver's side kick panel). If you have a massive short it should go away when the fuse is pulled. There is also another fuse/relay panel under the hood (passenger side firewall). Of course, if you pull a fuse and get a huge response, this is not a fuse issue. You have only located the circuit with a potential problem. However, It is possible for relays to weld themselves shut.
Nothing else is jumping to mind yet. Just keep in mind that stupid little parts can cause big headaches.
Oh, here's one more. I can't remember if the light on the vanity mirror on the passenger visor is switch controlled or is triggered by the running lights. If it is switch controlled, it could be on. If it's controlled by the headlight switch than it probably doesn't matter
I hope I've help at least a little help. This should give you a starting point.
Good luck
Dan

 

First of all, I am an electrical engineer. And Dan nailed it perfectly. Good job Dan.

I want to elaborate on Dan's post. For a current meter, you can use an amp clamp. Just make sure it is for DC and work in the range within 12 volt. An amp clamp is a meter with a clamp on the end of it or a loop that opens when you press on it. This will help you in the way that you don't need to remove cables or wires.

Mechanics don't understand electrical and electronics circuits if they are not trained in the field.

Regarding faulty ground, what exactly does it mean? I have no clue. But, I can tell you that there are certain condition in the grounding circuit that can cause problems.
1) If the ground is disconnected, you will get a floating circuit which then produces an unknown voltage to the components in the circuit. Loosing your ground is preatty bad, components can be burnet out due to this.

2) If there is a short to ground or a partial component short to ground, then it will increase current consumption. This is not a grounding issue.

Please follow Dan's suggestions and tell us what you found. Also check if there was an aftermarket something installed.

Good luck.

 

Hello Dan,
Wow thanks for all that info I really appreciate your help. Come to think of it I forgot to mention that I saw a small spark when the key is turned to start the car but only saw it 2 times not again after that. Whatever is causing that spark problem has got to be connected to the drainage problem. So I will check the connections on the starter tomorrow I will start there. Today I checked the positive and negative cables they look good/okay. Also another thing I should mention and tell me if you think this might make a difference or not. I changed the positive and negative clamps that connect on the battery. When I did the job I am sure I did it sloppy and used black electrical tape to hide any loose wires that I could not squeeze into clamp. I did copy and do what was already there from the factory were they had the 2 wires connecting together and touching/ on top of one another. So I don't think that could be messed up or have anything to do with the problem but let me know what you think thanks.
Dave

 

Dave, you said you saw a spark a couple of time. Where did you see it? Where you looking under the hood with someone else at the wheel or were you behind the wheel? If you were at the wheel and you saw you saw a spark when the key touched the ignition switch than I would say that that is not a symptom. Most likely just static electricity due to the dry winter air. If you were looking under the hood at the time than that too may not be a symptom because the starter pulls a lot of amps and I wouldn't be surprised to see a little flashing from the brushes in the starter. Here is the part where I might get long winded. My father-in-law told me of a clever trick that can sometimes pin down and electrical problem. Take the car to the darkest place you can find (at night). With the engine running, pop the hood and start poking around. If you had an obvious short or a wire that was rubbing on a sharp edge than you are likely to see a spark. This works especially well with spark plug wires rubbing on valve covers and other do-dads. You problem is doesn't have anything to do with spark plugs but it's a tip to put in your bag of trick for later down the road. I once had a Mazda that apparently had tasty plug wires. The local squirrels would climb into the engine compartment and chew all the insulation off. The buggers went through 3 sets in 2 weeks. The engine looked like a carnival at night. Finally rubbed the last set with Tabasco. I win .. Anyway, you might get lucky and see something. Be careful though, in the dark you won't see the Alt/Pwr steering, and AC pullies and belts and keep your hand clear of the fans, they are more likely to come on when the car is running and sitting still.

As far as the battery cable connector replacement... I would not suspect that. The only way I can think that that might be a problem is if there are so few wires connected to the connector that alternator is unable to send enough current to the battery to keep it charged. I wouldn't say that the chances are zero but unless you did a really, really sloppy I'd start looking somewhere else.
I also thought a little more about the fog light idea. I don't know if you even have them but here is the thought. If the lights are wired to a relay AND the circuit is always hot AND both bulbs are blown... then the relay would be triggered but you would not have any signs that the lights should be on. The reason I mention this is that the same type of circuit could be used to wire a sub, an amp, an alarm, or any other device a previous owner could have installed.
Like DOZ5 said, If you've got a clamp type AMP meter, that's the way to go. It's 100 time easier than undoing the battery cable. If you don't have that type it's still not hard. One word of warning however. Don't try to start the car with the meter connected 'in-line'. That much amperage will probably smoke your meter or melt you leads.

Looking forward to more clues.

Dan

 

Hello Dan,
Okay the spark was me looking under the hood while someone else started car and the spark was from the starter or that area. I did not see it again though I only saw a small spark 2 times then not after that. I think it was from the starter near positive cable because it did not do it again I am not worried there.

So I went back to advance had them run their full system check and to my surprise everything came back okay including the amp/drain test (it came back bad before) so that is great news. Being that I am thorough I took it to another advance got same results then I took it to auto zone to get different machine test done for 2nd opinion and same thing everything okay.

So I am concluding the following and you tell me what you think please. FACTS the car sat a long time without being started at all 2 or possibly 3 months. Most of the time the car was under a lot of snow almost 2 feet for over a month 1/2. The battery was already almost 1 year 1/2 old so I am thinking that cold snow on top of car and it sitting without me starting it killed the battery. When I got the new battery from advance auto they did not let the car run a while after installing new battery. This is the culprit of this whole mess I believe because....... Right after they installed the new battery they immediately did test not even letting the car start and run for a bit. So OFCOURSE their testing equipment is going to show a high DRAIN of amps as the car just got started up with a new battery when before it had a weak almost dead battery. So after I drove the car a day or 2 then the test results showed everything is okay. This is what I think tell me if you concur and your insight on this matter thanks.
Dave

 

Dave, you threw me for a curve. Your original post said it died suddenly but your follow up said it sat 2 - 3 months. I was thinking that the car ran one day and the next it was dead. That is important, diagnostically. I would be surprised if my car started after 3 months. My brother had a fuz-buster hotwired into his car and after 3 months at the airport it was enough to kill the battery. Luckily he had stolen MY jumper cables..
What you are describing certainly could be the case. I would expect an 'off-the-shelf' battery to require at least a little bit of charge to bring it up to 100%. And, certainly, hooking up all the test equipment to a newly installed battery would show a drain.
After an adventure like this I would be paranoid enough to install an amp gauge just to keep an eye on thing. I'm not suggesting you do this but it would give the creeps. I've got a 91 accord and I've decided that the idiot lights aren't telling me enough. I just swapped out the oil pump while doing a timing-belt change and installed a pressure gauge at the same time. I also installed some lights on the dash so I know when the cooling fans come on. I even keep my 12 pound Honda manual on the back set just in case. It's saved my butt many times.
Oh, I have to say this too. Any mechanic that recommends selling a car because the battery is draining is an idiot. That's like buying 4 new tires because you can't figure out where you lost one of your valve caps.

I'm sure glad the accord seems to be happy again. A running Honda is a happy Honda.

Dan

 

Hello Dan,
Sorry for the confusion in my post and yes I concur with you the mechanic is a idiot as are a lot around here.... Would be nice if I could find a good mechanic that is not afraid of work.... Well I think the car is A okay now I love my accord my favorite car