K series swap to an EK civic???
12-27-2005, 11:01 PM
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K series swap to an EK civic???
I used to be really into hondas a few years ago bout till 99' then i just been really busy with school and life etc.. anyways now that im taking a break on classes I want to build this heap I have had sitting around. The talk around town i suppose is to put a Kseries motor into a "XX" civic.
Im not very up to date on the k series engines from honda so if someone had the knowledge, i would be in great appreciation for the low down on the specs and what the costs are and what ones are fairly easy to obtain, maybe even a good link or 2 on where to get some..
Secondly I want to know how involved and how much and what is needed to get one of these bad boys into an EK hatch. 96 dx to be exact. Also want to know if its even efficient with the weight ratio on the hatch... or if I should just do it the old school way and go with a B-series motor.
I have done about 5-6 full swaps using civics eg and ek using b series motors and have always had some help so that is the extent of my experience. Help me out!!!!
Anything is appreciated and I thank you guys in advance.
Im not very up to date on the k series engines from honda so if someone had the knowledge, i would be in great appreciation for the low down on the specs and what the costs are and what ones are fairly easy to obtain, maybe even a good link or 2 on where to get some..
Secondly I want to know how involved and how much and what is needed to get one of these bad boys into an EK hatch. 96 dx to be exact. Also want to know if its even efficient with the weight ratio on the hatch... or if I should just do it the old school way and go with a B-series motor.
I have done about 5-6 full swaps using civics eg and ek using b series motors and have always had some help so that is the extent of my experience. Help me out!!!!
Anything is appreciated and I thank you guys in advance.
12-28-2005, 07:59 AM
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I think you should also consider the extent of your plans. Is the swap ALL you want to do? If you want to boost the motor afterwards, then a B series is going to be MUCH as easier as you can go OBD1 and be able to use most DIY fuel managment units out there. Also, the b series has a far more exstensive used and new parts market behind it right now. If all your looking for is a swap that will turn heads then go for the K series, but if you have plans for more then stock power and you dont have a trust fund funding this project, a b series will be much better
12-28-2005, 11:45 AM
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its still expensive as fawk though... expect to spend at the least 8gs and up to 10gs on the swap
k series however does have a lot more potential than the previous engines...but IMO its still not worth the swap till it gets a tid bit cheaper
k series however does have a lot more potential than the previous engines...but IMO its still not worth the swap till it gets a tid bit cheaper
12-28-2005, 05:58 PM
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Ok alot of people will say its not worth it but im one of the ones all for it. They are great swaps for all motor and if you want to boost they are great for that too just a little bit more dificult, than a b, to do so at the time. The power to wait ratio with the k series is amazing. Check out k20a.org they have a ton of useful information. Yes at the moment they are expesive if you do it all right. Stay away from the k20a3 because they are no where near as strong/fast as the k20a or a2. If you have the money do a k24/k20a frank. Those are crazy set ups that are worth the money , IMO. But if you have the money do it if not stick with the B series.
12-29-2005, 09:01 AM
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OK been reading up, seems like there are these models;
K20
k20a
k20a2
k20a3
k24
am i missing any?
from what im reading k20 (from japan) is the best model? I was trying to find out spec sheets including the wieght for all the k-series engines but no luck. anyone have a link?
K20
k20a
k20a2
k20a3
k24
am i missing any?
from what im reading k20 (from japan) is the best model? I was trying to find out spec sheets including the wieght for all the k-series engines but no luck. anyone have a link?
12-29-2005, 10:01 AM
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OK maybe we should just throw out a ton of information for him to help him out here since he hasn't got much knowledge, and since K series is fairly new I can't just say Search 
JUST TO START. THIS SWAP IS NOT AS HARD AS PEOPLE PRETEND IT IS. NOBODY HERE HAS FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE SO DON'T TAKE EVERYONES WORD
Ok you have many many choices for your engine and transmission and mounts etc...
I'll make a guide cause I'm bored and just got off work.
ENGINE CHOICES
There are basically 2 types of K series, the economy versions and the performance versions.
First I will talk about the performance versions.
The following engines are performance oriented with 3 lobe Vtec on both camshafts, similar to the DOHC VTEC engines we all love:
K20A2 found in 02-04 acura RSX type-s
K20A (jdm only) found in JDM ITR and CTR, also UKDM ITR. UKDM CTR is like our K20A2 but with LSD
K24A2 found in USDM Acura TSX. Only available in America
K20Z1 found in 05+ RSX type-s
K20Z3 found in 06+ Civic SI
Ok all of these engines are basically similar. The ITR, CTR, K20Z1 and K20Z3 have better cams than the K24a2 and K20a2.
For Drag racing the K24a2 is the best platform. The K24a2 head has more meat to port out and flows similar to the others. All of the heads flow amazing and most 300whp+ motors have stock headwork still. The heads are not what needs improvement on these engines, its the induction systems that are lacking (unlike B series which lack in the head department in comparison).
Now for the Economy engines. Although they say I-vtec on them still they are quite different. They don't have any vtec on the exhaust camshaft, and on the intake camshaft its just a Two lobe system instead of three. Their vtec activates at 2200rpm and just helps with fuel ecomony. That said these are still big motors and make extremely fast cars for a budget (most can be had for $800 to $1200).
K20A3 found in 02-05 Civic SI hatchback and 02-05 RSX base model
K24A1 found in Honda CRV 02+
K24A3 found in Honda Accords
K24A4 found in Honda Accords I think
Ok these motors, although they don't have the awesome vtec we all want, are extremely high potential for budget oriented K series people. Their heads flow better than any B series and also better than H22. They are just held back by camshafts and factory ECU tuning. There are a couple people with K20A3's putting down 190whp and 160ft lbs of torque. Thats pretty much an ITR motor with way way more torque and it comes on much earlier than the B series.
That is what makes K series so amazingly fast is the torque comes early, similar to V8's.
TRANSMISSION CHOICES
For transmissions there is a dilemma in the K series world right now.
Only K20A2, K20A3, and 01-04 K20A transmissions can be used.
The TSX transmission cannot be used as it has different mounting points.
The new K20Z1 and Z3 transmissions use a magnetic speed sensor that isn't adaptable to the Hondata K pro ecu.
This means you are stuck using the older transmissions for now, but fixes are being worked on (new technology takes time). The bad thing is some of the first tranmissions had syncro issues, so be very sure to ask about them before buying your swap.
The 5 speed and 6 speed transmissions are similar in design, and you can make a 5 speed into a 6 speed fairly easily. also all gearsets, even the TSX and new ones are interchangable. All LSDs are interchangable, and DC2 itr LSDs work with very very minimal machining to shim. LSD is very important when you have as much torque as these motors put out.
MOUNT KITS
There are three choices out there for mount kits that I know of. Only two are reliable and they do place the engine at different spots so research which one you want closely. The only two I recommend are Hybrid Racing, and Hasport.
Since you have an EK you have a problem however. EK mount kits put the oil pan extremely low. The only solution is to deal with it, or switch to the EG crossmember (not as hard as it sounds). If you can find an EG or DC crossmember and swap to it, and then use Hasports EKK2 swap mounts, you will have nearly perfect axle geometry and oil pan clearance.
WIRING AND ECU
Wiring is somewhat difficult if you try to DIY. You need the engine harness and charging harness from the original motor. The charging harness is what controls the big power eaters such as alternator, starter, etc..
To DIY I recommend searching on K20.org
It requires a few special plugs that you have to buy from hybrid racing or another vendor.
I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend buying a prefab wiring kit. I recommend the Hybrid racing one. although the hasport one works just as good, I feel the hybrid one is better designed as they use two completely different approaches to make it work. The prefab wiring cost $300 or so.
For the ECU you only really have two choices unless you are using the K20a2.
If you are just using a K20a2 you can also swap in the K20a2 key immobilizer and make it work as a stock ecu.
If you are using a JDM engine, you can just use the JDM ecu, as they don't have immobilizers.
If you are using any other engine or if you want to really make power you have to get Hondata Kpro or AEM. Kpro is more widely used although AEM is better for all out racing applications. Kpro is more than enough for almost 99% of everyone out there. This will run about $900 for Kpro, more for AEM.
MISC OTHER THINGS
SHIFTER- you have to mount the RSX or Civic SI shifter box in your car. The K series uses cable shifters instead of actual bars to the transmission. You need RSX type-s shifter cables, along with the shifter box.
You also have to use the Karcepts shifter mounting kit to make the shifter work with the factory center console. It is the only way to make it work like factory.
HEADER-You have to have an aftermarket header. The factory headers for these engines will interfere with your crossmember. There are many choices out there. DTR (now SixsigmaEngineering) makes the best header out there IMO, and they have a budget one now for $600 which is an awesome deal for the quality.
AXLES-you use B series axles but with the K series inner peice. DO NOT waste your money on aftermarket axles unless you get stage 3 or better. The stage 1 and 2 aftermarket axles are weaker than factory and snap very often with the amount of torque these motors put down. You can also use Base RSX axles just fine. If you have a JDM CTR/ITR 5 lug conversion (36mm spindle) you can use RSX-S axles.
RADIATOR- the stock radiator is more than sufficent for these motors. they are very efficent and don't create much heat.
You have to relocate your radiator to the driver side however. This is simple to do however. You just remove the radiator. then drill out the 2 spot welds on each of the lower radiator mounts, and then they pop off, and you move them to the other side where you can bolt them on, or reweld them on, up to you.
You will also need to get an adapter from hasport for the thermo switch and radiator switch. Its a small machined sleeve with 2 bungs in it.
FUELING
The K series uses a returnless fuel system. for this reason you need a custom fuel setup. It requires a fuel rail (although some tap the factory one) and a universal fuel pressure regulator, along with some braided lines.
There are a few more things to the swap but thats about the largest chunk of it. If you have more specific questions as you go just PM me and I'll be glad to answer. I'm an information junkie.
Thats the end of the guide.
Now which engine would I buy?? depends on my budget.
The JDM ones aren't worth what they cost. PERIOD.
USDM k20a2 can be had for $3500 for a complete swap.
USDM k24a2 can be had for $2400 for engine, and then you have to buy transmission and whatnot seperately.
USDM K24a1,3 and 4 can be had for $800-1200 and still put down more power than a GSR motor and a shitload more torque. and are easy as hell to find.
USDM K20A3 go for about $1000
Transmissions go for about $600-700 for 5 speeds, and $800 to $1100 for 6 speeds.
LSD equipped ones go for about $1200-1500.
The complete swap will cost you anywhere from $5000 if you can find a good complete K20a2 for less than $4k clear up to $9000 if you buy a JDM motor and Kpro and all the goodies.
I'm already 4k into my swap and have about 2200 left to go. Funds are short til tax season so I'm not gonna be done til spring/early summer.
In a civic, with one of the performance oriented motors, kpro, dtr budget header, and a little weight trimming you can easily expect 12s, 11's with a completely gutted car and some damn good driving
JUST TO START. THIS SWAP IS NOT AS HARD AS PEOPLE PRETEND IT IS. NOBODY HERE HAS FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE SO DON'T TAKE EVERYONES WORD
Ok you have many many choices for your engine and transmission and mounts etc...
I'll make a guide cause I'm bored and just got off work.
ENGINE CHOICES
There are basically 2 types of K series, the economy versions and the performance versions.
First I will talk about the performance versions.
The following engines are performance oriented with 3 lobe Vtec on both camshafts, similar to the DOHC VTEC engines we all love:
K20A2 found in 02-04 acura RSX type-s
K20A (jdm only) found in JDM ITR and CTR, also UKDM ITR. UKDM CTR is like our K20A2 but with LSD
K24A2 found in USDM Acura TSX. Only available in America
K20Z1 found in 05+ RSX type-s
K20Z3 found in 06+ Civic SI
Ok all of these engines are basically similar. The ITR, CTR, K20Z1 and K20Z3 have better cams than the K24a2 and K20a2.
For Drag racing the K24a2 is the best platform. The K24a2 head has more meat to port out and flows similar to the others. All of the heads flow amazing and most 300whp+ motors have stock headwork still. The heads are not what needs improvement on these engines, its the induction systems that are lacking (unlike B series which lack in the head department in comparison).
Now for the Economy engines. Although they say I-vtec on them still they are quite different. They don't have any vtec on the exhaust camshaft, and on the intake camshaft its just a Two lobe system instead of three. Their vtec activates at 2200rpm and just helps with fuel ecomony. That said these are still big motors and make extremely fast cars for a budget (most can be had for $800 to $1200).
K20A3 found in 02-05 Civic SI hatchback and 02-05 RSX base model
K24A1 found in Honda CRV 02+
K24A3 found in Honda Accords
K24A4 found in Honda Accords I think
Ok these motors, although they don't have the awesome vtec we all want, are extremely high potential for budget oriented K series people. Their heads flow better than any B series and also better than H22. They are just held back by camshafts and factory ECU tuning. There are a couple people with K20A3's putting down 190whp and 160ft lbs of torque. Thats pretty much an ITR motor with way way more torque and it comes on much earlier than the B series.
That is what makes K series so amazingly fast is the torque comes early, similar to V8's.
TRANSMISSION CHOICES
For transmissions there is a dilemma in the K series world right now.
Only K20A2, K20A3, and 01-04 K20A transmissions can be used.
The TSX transmission cannot be used as it has different mounting points.
The new K20Z1 and Z3 transmissions use a magnetic speed sensor that isn't adaptable to the Hondata K pro ecu.
This means you are stuck using the older transmissions for now, but fixes are being worked on (new technology takes time). The bad thing is some of the first tranmissions had syncro issues, so be very sure to ask about them before buying your swap.
The 5 speed and 6 speed transmissions are similar in design, and you can make a 5 speed into a 6 speed fairly easily. also all gearsets, even the TSX and new ones are interchangable. All LSDs are interchangable, and DC2 itr LSDs work with very very minimal machining to shim. LSD is very important when you have as much torque as these motors put out.
MOUNT KITS
There are three choices out there for mount kits that I know of. Only two are reliable and they do place the engine at different spots so research which one you want closely. The only two I recommend are Hybrid Racing, and Hasport.
Since you have an EK you have a problem however. EK mount kits put the oil pan extremely low. The only solution is to deal with it, or switch to the EG crossmember (not as hard as it sounds). If you can find an EG or DC crossmember and swap to it, and then use Hasports EKK2 swap mounts, you will have nearly perfect axle geometry and oil pan clearance.
WIRING AND ECU
Wiring is somewhat difficult if you try to DIY. You need the engine harness and charging harness from the original motor. The charging harness is what controls the big power eaters such as alternator, starter, etc..
To DIY I recommend searching on K20.org
It requires a few special plugs that you have to buy from hybrid racing or another vendor.
I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend buying a prefab wiring kit. I recommend the Hybrid racing one. although the hasport one works just as good, I feel the hybrid one is better designed as they use two completely different approaches to make it work. The prefab wiring cost $300 or so.
For the ECU you only really have two choices unless you are using the K20a2.
If you are just using a K20a2 you can also swap in the K20a2 key immobilizer and make it work as a stock ecu.
If you are using a JDM engine, you can just use the JDM ecu, as they don't have immobilizers.
If you are using any other engine or if you want to really make power you have to get Hondata Kpro or AEM. Kpro is more widely used although AEM is better for all out racing applications. Kpro is more than enough for almost 99% of everyone out there. This will run about $900 for Kpro, more for AEM.
MISC OTHER THINGS
SHIFTER- you have to mount the RSX or Civic SI shifter box in your car. The K series uses cable shifters instead of actual bars to the transmission. You need RSX type-s shifter cables, along with the shifter box.
You also have to use the Karcepts shifter mounting kit to make the shifter work with the factory center console. It is the only way to make it work like factory.
HEADER-You have to have an aftermarket header. The factory headers for these engines will interfere with your crossmember. There are many choices out there. DTR (now SixsigmaEngineering) makes the best header out there IMO, and they have a budget one now for $600 which is an awesome deal for the quality.
AXLES-you use B series axles but with the K series inner peice. DO NOT waste your money on aftermarket axles unless you get stage 3 or better. The stage 1 and 2 aftermarket axles are weaker than factory and snap very often with the amount of torque these motors put down. You can also use Base RSX axles just fine. If you have a JDM CTR/ITR 5 lug conversion (36mm spindle) you can use RSX-S axles.
RADIATOR- the stock radiator is more than sufficent for these motors. they are very efficent and don't create much heat.
You have to relocate your radiator to the driver side however. This is simple to do however. You just remove the radiator. then drill out the 2 spot welds on each of the lower radiator mounts, and then they pop off, and you move them to the other side where you can bolt them on, or reweld them on, up to you.
You will also need to get an adapter from hasport for the thermo switch and radiator switch. Its a small machined sleeve with 2 bungs in it.
FUELING
The K series uses a returnless fuel system. for this reason you need a custom fuel setup. It requires a fuel rail (although some tap the factory one) and a universal fuel pressure regulator, along with some braided lines.
There are a few more things to the swap but thats about the largest chunk of it. If you have more specific questions as you go just PM me and I'll be glad to answer. I'm an information junkie.
Thats the end of the guide.
Now which engine would I buy?? depends on my budget.
The JDM ones aren't worth what they cost. PERIOD.
USDM k20a2 can be had for $3500 for a complete swap.
USDM k24a2 can be had for $2400 for engine, and then you have to buy transmission and whatnot seperately.
USDM K24a1,3 and 4 can be had for $800-1200 and still put down more power than a GSR motor and a shitload more torque. and are easy as hell to find.
USDM K20A3 go for about $1000
Transmissions go for about $600-700 for 5 speeds, and $800 to $1100 for 6 speeds.
LSD equipped ones go for about $1200-1500.
The complete swap will cost you anywhere from $5000 if you can find a good complete K20a2 for less than $4k clear up to $9000 if you buy a JDM motor and Kpro and all the goodies.
I'm already 4k into my swap and have about 2200 left to go. Funds are short til tax season so I'm not gonna be done til spring/early summer.
In a civic, with one of the performance oriented motors, kpro, dtr budget header, and a little weight trimming you can easily expect 12s, 11's with a completely gutted car and some damn good driving
Last edited by bambbrose; 12-29-2005 at 10:12 AM.
